Those Damned Cachous

[RockySullivan]

If they were bought near by stride may have tried to clutch on to them
In an effort to send the police checking round anywhere in the vicinity where the candy was sold in tissue paper. The seller might remember who bought them

[c.d.]

Again, the real issue with the cachous (as Lynn points out) is how did they withstand Liz being thrown about by the B.S. man? If we conclude that she did not have them in her hand at that time then what does that tell us?

c.d.

[RockySullivan]

Again, the real issue with the cachous (as Lynn points out) is how did they withstand Liz being thrown about by the B.S. man? If we conclude that she did not have them in her hand at that time then what does that tell us?

c.d.

Hi cd, It might mean that pipeman returned finished smoking and pulled out his after smoking mints.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Do you think the ripper was sexually attracted to the disfigurement caused by the mutilations, having a fetish for bloody body parts, cut up sex organs, opened intenstines & fecal matter etc. he did smear the feces and the way he placed the intestines over the shoulder point to that. Does this make the ripper a necrophile?

Maybe more like a escalating case of picquerism.

[GUT]

Again, the real issue with the cachous (as Lynn points out) is how did they withstand Liz being thrown about by the B.S. man? If we conclude that she did not have them in her hand at that time then what does that tell us?

c.d.

Pretty simple really.

[Rosella]

Why couldn't they have been in her pocket under her skirts at the time of the attack by BS or, alternatively,couldn't she have been given a few cachous in tissue paper by her killer just before she died?

[GUT]

Why couldn't they have been in her pocket under her skirts at the time of the attack by BS or, alternatively,couldn't she have been given a few cachous in tissue paper by her killer just before she died?

I think the point is that if she had them in her hand when she was thrown to the ground by BS man she would have been likely to have dropped them.

I don't understand why some think that they needed to be given to her by the killer, that's what really puzzles me.

She may have bought them herself that way.

Or bought them and that's how the shopkeeper gave them to her [as I said earlier] when I was a kid lollies were 2 or more a penny, if you bought one or two lollies, maybe just a halfpenny worth the shop keeper wouldn't put them in a bag but wrap them in a little bit of of paper [tissue or greaseproof].

Maybe she cadged them off someone at the doss and wrapped them in tissue to use later.

[Errata]

I've said it elsewhere, there is real merit in the idea that she clutched the bag as part of a vasovagal issue. If her scarf was jerked the right direction, it could easily irritate the vagus nerve causing syncope.

I used to have terrible orthostatic hypotension as a teenager, and my parents got to be pros at kicking some soft object across the room for me to fall on every time I stood up. It was ridiculous, I always fell stiff as a board (not crumpling), and I would invariably come to, get up, and still have a coke bottle in my hand.

It's possible she was jerked with enough force that he was on her and had cut her throat before she came to. Irritating the same nerve can cause the heart to stop in rare cases. And getting your vagus nerve hit is a very peculiar sensation. It's like you are a guitar string that just got plucked. It's very disorienting even if your heart doesn't freak out. It literally feels like you are vibrating and it searing pain, and yeah. If you are holding something you will clutch it for dear life. Like you would if you were in an earthquake.

I got hit hard enough on the neck with a (blunt) sword I had to go to the ER to make sure my blood vessels weren't compromised. Holy crap. That is not a sensation you forget. And after I got up and was telling people I was fine, I couldn't let go of my sword. My best friend had to pry my fingers open. I didn't mean to hold on to it, I just couldn't get the appropriate signals to my hand. Don't get hit in the vagus nerve. Seriously. Although because of that accident I can imagine what a bad acid trip is like.

[Wickerman]

I think the term is "cadaveric spasm", that explains her grasping the cachous.
That is really the problem isn't it, I mean there are several legitimate possibilities how they came to be in her hands, but she didn't drop them due to cadaveric spasm.
She obviously would not have this spasm when being thrown down, so she picked the cachous out of her pocket, or was given them after the first assault, by who, and why, are still open questions.

[GUT]

I think the term is "cadaveric spasm", that explains her grasping the cachous.
That is really the problem isn't it, I mean there are several legitimate possibilities how they came to be in her hands, but she didn't drop them due to cadaveric spasm.
She obviously would not have this spasm when being thrown down, so she picked the cachous out of her pocket, or was given them after the first assault, by who, and why, are still open questions.

Spot on.

[RockySullivan]

Was strides throat cut from the opposite direction of the others? Could she have been cut from behind as opposed to the others? A surprise attack from the back, not necessarily a blitz but the ripper could have just surprised her from behind while she has the cachous in her hand.

[lynn cates]

grey cells

Hello CD.

"Again, the real issue with the cachous (as Lynn points out) is how did they withstand Liz being thrown about by the B.S. man? If we conclude that she did not have them in her hand at that time then what does that tell us?"

PRECISELY! You are as acute as ever, mon ami. I see you have been agitating ze little grey cells.

From my perspective, it means that IF BSM had attacked her AND later took her down and cut her throat:

1. She must have fallen both times in EXACTLY the same spot.

2. She must have calmed down and entered the passageway.

3. Her attacker entered with her.

4. Liz felt no apparent danger (unless, of course, she requested a cashou as her last wish before execution).

5. Her attacker and Liz BOTH turned 180 degrees due east after entering the yard whilst looking west.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

correct

Hello GUT.

"I think the point is that if she had them in her hand when she was thrown to the ground by BS man she would have been likely to have dropped them.

I don't understand why some think that they needed to be given to her by the killer, that's what really puzzles me."

Correct--on BOTH counts.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

thinking

Hello Errata. Excellent post. Glad to see a few people actually thinking about what happened in this assault.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

two assaults

Hello Jon.

"She obviously would not have this spasm when being thrown down, so she picked the cachous out of her pocket, or was given them after the first assault, by who, and why, are still open questions."

Splendid. Of course, other than Israel's tale, there is little reason to believe in two assaults.

Cheers.
LC