Originally posted by DVV
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It is troubling, but perhaps in the eyes of the clubmen,... if Schwartz fabricated the detail about Liz being accosted outside the gates and even the time that he saw the minor fracas, because it was advantageous to the club in that format,.... he would look like a hero in the eyes of the only people he likely cares about, his peers, fellow Socialist Jews.
I havent patched the holes that I see in the change of allegiance to Browns account and time, but I am sensing that in the murder of the woman in a Jewish Socialist/Anarchist organizations yard that it was a particularly dangerous event for all Jewish people there. Financially, spiritually. The club would have been closed in a second if we had club witnesses that the woman was killed in front of other club members in that yard...by a meeting attendee. The fact that she isnt mutilated might well have been part of the problem for them, because she is not clearly a victim of the Ripper.
Remember the very early Union years? When they hired thugs to man picket lines, or act as "security" at meetings or rallies? Would an Anarchist club, known by authorities and responsible for printing Socialist propaganda onsite act similarly?
Im beginning to wonder what made the horse shy...people or a body behind the gate and by the wall...and if Schwartz's failed attempt to write the records according to his account, and Goldsteins story...both translated for them, were efforts to do club damage control. They couldnt move her...so something had to be constructed that included her being there WITHOUT a club member, and with none around.
When Goldstein walks by, witnessed, at 12:55...by Blackwells estimates to the minute, Liz must be cut within one minute for him to be accurate, or already cut. She and killer almost had to be there. If he saw a lone man, not from the club, over her or killing her in an empty yard, he would cause the club no harm by saying so. I feel he must have seen something or some people...Fanny says he walked hurriedly past after looking up at the club...to do so he would have had to look back, over his right shoulder...the club second window, or the top floor, wouldnt be at a 90 angle from his place in front of the gates.
He has a gladstone type bag full of empty cigarette cartons at 12:55am, and he is outside the gates of a yard of a club he belongs to that is open and active, and that has cigarette makers in cottages who stated they were awake. I think something he saw changed his mind about bringing the bag to them in the yard.
My understanding is that Wess translated for Goldstein, and he may have done so for Schwartz...Wess is the man that runs the Arbeter Fraint, a Social revolution type publication, its in the back of that yard....and should the events details be anything but what was given by the club members onsite, he probably would have been shut down.
Im beginning to think that James Brown might be a more trustworthy source, partly because his story is the Inquest version of events at 12:45am, and that Leon Goldstein, Wess, and Schwartz may have had enough at stake to fabricate some details for the sake of the club. Wess himself may have done it in translating.
Mr Wess is the first person called at Liz Strides Inquest. Not the man that found her, the Club Steward...not the one that last saw her...not Kidney.... but Wess. The man whose statements take him off premises long before Liz is seen there, or found.
I think some lesser characters in the event are perhaps more telling stories....in particular Wess and Goldstein.
Sorry that was so long.....Ive obviously been thinking aloud so that something might pop into someone elses head based on that kind of questioning.
Again...sorry for the length. Best regards amigo.
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