A problem with the "Eddowes Shawl" DNA match

[GUT]

G'day Chris

Sorry to hear you are getting so much flack in the other place.

Thanks for the post about Dr Louhelainen at least acknowledging some type of error, though it seems that he might still be trying to cover his a$$ with the bit about last minute or is it just another example of Edwards being a bit loose with the truth?

[Chris]

I see Edward Stow has posted some information from Dr Louhelainen:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showpost.php?p=251676&postcount=263

If accurate, it suggests for the first time that he has acknowledged an error was made over the rarity of 314.1C/315.1C, and that he is not now claiming that the mtDNA found on the shawl is specific to Catherine Eddowes:
"He also said there are 12 points of comparison (markers?) to determine a match.
The one they mentioned by name (315.1C or whatever) was just one of the twelve, which was presented as an example, was found late in the process and included in the book at the last minute.
This is one that they seem to have mistakenly thought was more rare than it was. I believe they are looking at the others.
Whether the others narrow the field down to Eddowes remains to be seen but they seem confident that it will."

If accurate, this would be significant information, but it has to be said that the statement about 314.1C/315.1C being found late in the process and included in the book at the last minute is completely at odds with what the book says. That implies the "Eddowes" DNA analysis was done in early 2013, and the report by Dr Louhelainen quoted at length mentions only 314.1C and no other "point of comparison".

[Chris]

In response to the latest bit of nonsense posted on jtrforums by someone who has been banned from Casebook, of course I have not accused Dr Louhelainen of lying, but of making a basic error. And of course, that has been amply confirmed by others, including the scientists responsible for the software and databases which Dr Louhelainen used, and Professor Sir Alec Jeffreys himself. Anyone who is still trying to deny that is in a very poor position to call other people "nutters".

As this still seems to be going on and on at jtrforums, let's try and make things even clearer. Not only have I not accused Dr Louhelainen of lying. I haven't insinuated or hinted that he has lied either. In fact I can't fathom what statement of Dr Louhelainen's people are thinking of which could plausibly be a lie.

The whole point is that because he had made a mistake, he believed the 315.1C feature of the matching "Eddowes" sequence was rare. It wasn't - it was extremely common. But he didn't know that at the time, so he wasn't lying.

[Chris]

In response to the latest bit of nonsense posted on jtrforums by someone who has been banned from Casebook, of course I have not accused Dr Louhelainen of lying, but of making a basic error. And of course, that has been amply confirmed by others, including the scientists responsible for the software and databases which Dr Louhelainen used, and Professor Sir Alec Jeffreys himself. Anyone who is still trying to deny that is in a very poor position to call other people "nutters".

[Peter Griffith aka gryff]

Ahh the flick knife

*Im joking. We all know they prefer the flick knife.

Ahh yes the flick knife ...

It's not safe anymore, when you walk through your door,
Well someone could kick in your brains,
When we were your young we had flair, we always fought fair,
With flick knives and bicycle chains

From : "When I was a lad" ... Oldham Tinkers

cheers, gryff

[Monty]

I presume the only way you sleep with a clear conscience is because you completely lack one. Anyone who can steal work from a dozen authors, publish it in a book as their own and reap the financial benefits cannot possibly have a conscience.

Do not attempt to put yourself in ethical category against Paul Begg. Begg and I have had serious difficulties in the past, there is no question, but that is an insult that is intolerable coming from you.

And don't bother reporting me on this one, I'll report myself and give myself the damn infraction, it needed to be said.

You got an infraction for that? Stating the truth? Geeze, I did the same and got banned for a month. Totally worth it mind.

Trev thinks ethics is a county in England which boarders 'Suffix' and Cambridgeshire.


Monty

[Monty]

The bodyguards were needed,

Liza Hopkinson and Sue Parry pack a mean punch*

Monty


*Im joking. We all know they prefer the flick knife.

[Peter Griffith aka gryff]

In Wonderland

It's kind of hard to believe all of this is real.
Cheers,
Archaic

Archaic, I woke up this morning and checked the WS1888 Facebook page - locked to non-members of the group. By the afternoon - nothing - "This content is currently unavailable"

Checking the jtrforums - quite a vociferous and sometimes nasty debate.

I get a feeling of having fallen down a rabbit hole.

And RE and his musclebound cohorts are probably laughing all the way to the bank.

cheers, gryff

PS: Anyone know if "Daz the Bull" and John are present for RE's ripper tours?

[Archaic]

That was intended to be a joke, but I see that Howard Brown has now posted a message from Ricky Cobb including the following:

After the talks we met up with several delegates who informed us of the blatant censorship and shambolic conduct of the Q&A including the conference MC who informed us that 5 mins prior he was informed by Edwards that DNA questions would not be answered.
The MC also informed us the two body guards sitting with Edwards were quite intimidating and he feared if he had pushed the questions he might have been under threat.
http://www.jtrforums.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=128

Hi Chris. Looks like I wasn't far off with my joke:

Hmmm...

Maybe it's a subtle message to pesky Ripperologists referencing armed bodyguards, knuckle sandwiches and cement shoes?

I'm glad they're all smiling and look like nice guys.

Best regards,
Archaic

- Wasn't there some hit movie called 'The Bodyguard'? I never saw it; only know the basic plot-line. For some reason it popped into my head just now and made me laugh.

It's kind of hard to believe all of this is real.

Except of course for the part that isn't real.

Cheers,
Archaic

[PaulB]

i have noting to cry about life is good. I can go to bed at night and sleep with a clear conscience, can you ?

You know what they say, Trevor: someone with a clear conscience is someone with a bad memory.

[Trevor Marriott]

I presume the only way you sleep with a clear conscience is because you completely lack one. Anyone who can steal work from a dozen authors, publish it in a book as their own and reap the financial benefits cannot possibly have a conscience.

Do not attempt to put yourself in ethical category against Paul Begg. Begg and I have had serious difficulties in the past, there is no question, but that is an insult that is intolerable coming from you.

And don't bother reporting me on this one, I'll report myself and give myself the damn infraction, it needed to be said.

Glad you landed back safely, hope the broom stick survived the journey

[Ally]

i have noting to cry about life is good. I can go to bed at night and sleep with a clear conscience, can you ?

I presume the only way you sleep with a clear conscience is because you completely lack one. Anyone who can steal work from a dozen authors, publish it in a book as their own and reap the financial benefits cannot possibly have a conscience.

Do not attempt to put yourself in ethical category against Paul Begg. Begg and I have had serious difficulties in the past, there is no question, but that is an insult that is intolerable coming from you.

And don't bother reporting me on this one, I'll report myself and give myself the damn infraction, it needed to be said.

[Trevor Marriott]

How true. How so very true. Life can be a real bitch. Still, rest assured that one day you'll find someone to wipe away your tears.

i have noting to cry about life is good. I can go to bed at night and sleep with a clear conscience, can you ?

[PaulB]

Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone

How true. How so very true. Life can be a real bitch. Still, rest assured that one day you'll find someone to wipe away your tears.

[Trevor Marriott]

You are right. I'll leave the comedy to you. For some reason I just can't seem to make a fool of myself. And I suppose it must seem to you that I have strange lines of thought and an absence of logical reasoning. Those things which are unfamiliar to oneself, like thinking and logical reasoning, so often seem strange. It's the way of the world, I suppose.

Still, nobody threatened to throw eggs at you. And your books haven't met with the same degree of hostility. The worst you could expect was to be treated as a joke, which isn't really all that bad, but in fact all the delegates treated you very well indeed, as I would expect.

Laugh and the world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone