Location Location Location!

[Krinoid]

Thanks Jane, i got a copy also weeks ago.
Mark

[Roy Corduroy]

Thank you for that Rob.

If anyone wants to read the article on Mitre Square, which includes a lot of its history, just pm me and I'll email the pdf.

And thank you Jane, for sending me your article which appeared in Ripperologist 104 last summer.

Folks, if you haven't read it, go ahead and Private Message Jane with your e-mail and she will send you the article. It's that good. With the descriptions, photos, drawings and diagrams, I finally "got it."

Roy

[Rob Clack]

Just a note on the last photograph. I don't believe it was taken c1965 now. The reason I gave c1965 before was that it was in Tom Cullens book. After seeing some other photographs of Mitre Square from 1961 (no doubt about the date), the small wall and gate do not appear in them, so I believe the Tom Cullen photo is probably late 1950s.

Rob

[Roy Corduroy]

4 Mitre street in a photo Rob Clack shared on page 49 of the big East End thread.
Notice the supports on the building's side.




Tom Cullen's 1965 Ripper corner photo.
Note the same building supports visible above the gate across the lot.

[Roy Corduroy]

Medieval Site

Holy Trinity Priory, Aldgate c 1200



Red - church
Yellow - dormitories, kitchen and chapter house
Cloister (courtyard) now Mitre Square

underlying map by R Clack

[Roy Corduroy]

Good question, Krinoid, but I don't know.

I said it was a retirement gift. Actually I don't know that. At his retirement dinner in 1892, Abberline was given a silver tea and coffee set. I don't know when his police colleagues gave him the walking stick.

And another mistake I made is the map in post #47. It has the priory in the wrong position. Actually backwards. I read the museum's archeology book about that and will put up a correct map shortly.

Roy

[Krinoid]

Was the stick on exhibit at the JTR docklands exhibit in 2008?

[Roy Corduroy]

The Goodbye Stick





Abberline's stick was discussed previously see here http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4924/13776.html

[Roy Corduroy]

Krinoid, I don't know if the special walking sticks were sold, like Abberline's.



Drawn to represent that era. (map here) X marks where I think the Eddowes murder was in Mitre Square five hundred years later.

This is not scientific. Roy

[Krinoid]

Thanks Roy for the info on Mitre Square, has research come up with anything else revealing? Is it true they sold walking sticks like Insp.Abberline had?

[Jane Coram]

Just an afterthought --

If anyone wants to read the article on Mitre Square, which includes a lot of its history, just pm me and I'll email the pdf.

xxxxxx

[Jane Coram]

Hi Roy,

It's also mentioned in --

A History of the County of London: Volume 1: London within the Bars, Westminster and Southwark

William Page (editor) 1909

pp. 465-475

Hugs

Janie

xxxx

Glad I found it or I would have looked a right Charlie!!!

[Roy Corduroy]

The Allen, Thomas The History and Antiquities of London, Westminster, Southwark, book page 82 does mention Glinert's claim In East End chronicles that no one wanted the church and steeple to parishioners or for stone and no one wanted it! Maybe there was a curse associated with it? Wasn't this before the penny dreadfull was published?

No, no curse. Historian Strype (online) says that in 1531 the new owner first offered the church and bells to nearby St Katherine's Church if they would tear down their own church and rebuild, which they declined. He then offered the materials to anyone, with no takers, because " all the Buildings then made about the City were of Brick and Timber. At that time, any Man in the City might have a Cart Load of hard Stone for paving, brought to his Door for 6d. or 7d. with the Carriage."

Some of the stones were eventually used to build St James, Dukes Place in 1622. And a small remnant of the priory remained until it too came down in the 1800s.



And four of the church bells were hauled out Whitechapel Road to Stepney.


From the 1905 London Survey Committee

What does it all mean? That in 1888, at the height of the Ripper scare, an enterprising writer took the story of the ancient murder and sexed it up in the total fantasy version The Curse on Mitre Square. Which can be read online too. Just seach it.

And honestly, Krinoid, thank you for bringing it up. London history is fascinating.

Roy

[Roy Corduroy]

There apparently was one murder at the priory. In 1256, a prior,...allegedly killed another prior, and then wounded himself to make it look like self-defence. It seems to be accepted as probable fact by most of the authorities on the subject. I came across the account a lot in the course of researching the square, so it does have some credibility.

Jane, thanks to your cue, I located it. From Matthew Paris's English History from the Year 1235 to 1273 by J A Giles, London 1854





Thanks again and enjoy your weekend. - Roy

[Jane Coram]

Hi Roy,

I'll see if I can dig out the reference for you. I looked through so many books when I was doing the article that I forgot what I did look at in the end. I just guessed it was one of those because the other bits on the page were from there. I'm sure I can dig it out over the weekend for you.

Mind you, just because it was chronicled, it doesn't mean that it was true!

Hugs

Janie

xxxx