"I think I know him"

[Bridewell]

The superintendent at the Casual Ward where Kate Eddowes stayed shortly before her demise supposedly claimed to have been told by her:

"I have come back to earn the reward offered for the apprehension of the Whitechapel murderer. I think I know him."

This is rightly treated with a great deal of sceptcism but that doesn't necessarily mean that she didn't say it.

It seems to me that there are four possibilities:

(1) She didn't say it.
(2) She said it, but didn't mean it.
(3) She said it, believing it to be true, but was mistaken.
(4) She said it, believing it to be true - and was right.

The first three of these lead nowhere, so this thread is based on the assumption that, however unlikely, the fourth possibility is true. It probably won't lead anywhere, but I thought it worthy of discussion nonetheless. On that basis it's interesting that she dismissed the caution to take care lest she fall victim herself by replying: "Oh, no fear of that!" This would suggest a wholly misplaced confidence that the individual she suspected would not attack her. I note also that the superintendent, who supposedly knew her quite well (and who therefore presumably had at least a passing acquaintance with John Kelly) has Eddowes referring to herself only. She doesn't say, "We have come back........ We think we know him".

As I read it, either the story is nonsense or Eddowes suspected John Kelly of being the killer. Kelly was supposedly in poor health but, as another poster pointed out on a different thread, he seems to have been fit enough to walk 35 miles in a single day. If she did say it, is it capable of any other interpretation than that she suspected Kelly?

[Bridewell]

Just as an additional thought, the absence of Kate Eddowes and John Kelly from London coincided with a hiatus in the sequence of murders, which recommenced almost immediately after their return.

[DVV]

In that scenario, Colin, the Superintendent has to have told Kelly what Kate said, not realizing it was precisely Kelly that she suspected. Hence the murder ?

[Paddy]

Request

"I have come back to earn the reward offered for the apprehension of the Whitechapel murderer. I think I know him."

I wonder in what context this was said? Is it known, as it would really help me think why she said it?
On the night she died she was found very drunk by police imitating a train.
She strikes me as an extrovert sort of lady, so I would like to see if this may have been banter.

Many thanks
Pat

[lynn cates]

ideas

Hello Colin. Nice idea for a thread.

I like to suppose things to see where they lead--even if it may feel improbable. So, I accept your premise. Your right disjunct reads:

"Eddowes suspected John Kelly of being the killer."

OK, let's look at your follow up. "Kelly was supposedly in poor health."

Was he? Well, Debs (and possibly others) has found evidence that he WAS quite ill and died, I think, of his malady within about 2 years of the Autumn of Terror.

So, if we accept that John was quite ill, perhaps his candidacy is less viable?

Then let's look at, "If she did say it, is it capable of any other interpretation than that she suspected Kelly?"

GIVEN she said it, what could it mean? Is it possible that she would have meant what so many others meant (and we who are ripper students today do the same) that she had some ideas about the killer?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

coming back

Hello (again) Colin.

"the absence of Kate Eddowes and John Kelly from London coincided with a hiatus in the sequence of murders"

That's presuming, of course, that they arrived back in London on the 27th. But all the rest of London was walking back in week one of September. Why did they linger in Kent?

John describes the Birrell incident as being about this time. It seems to have slipped out during interview.

Again, in his interview, he talked about the many times that he and Kate had been without doss and many other times without food money. How can Thursday, Friday and Saturday translate to that many days?

Now, one can impugn "The Echo" concerning the story. Very well. Does one claim a mistake? Fine. What kind?

Or is one alleging wholesale prevarication? That would be quite a charge.

But if they came back earlier, then there is no coinciding of John and murder.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

apocryphal

Hello Pat. I wonder which reward that was and how well it was publicised?

Perhaps the one from the vigilance committee?

IF Kate were in Kent, how would she have heard of this reward? And when did she come by the knowledge of the killer, if she did?

I wonder whether her "fire engine" impression is not merely an apocryphal tale?

Cheers.
LC

[spyglass]

Hi all,
But was there any rewards up for grabs after only two murders at that point ?
Ithought the police only offered rewards after the murder of MJK.
I could be wrong.....I often am!

[Wickerman]

The first offer of a reward was by S. Montagu M.P. about Sept 12th, for £100

My query about the comment by Kate is, 'did she find out who the killer was while in Kent, or did she know before they left?'

[Supe]

The statement attributed to Eddowes is almost assuredly fallacious. And while Jon is right about Montagu, he was a very reluctant sponsor (he only raised the subject of his offering a reward because he thought the government would take over the financial burden). As a result, he certainly did not publicize his reward. There were a couple of other small sums pledged, but the publicity was not great about them either.

Talk of a reward only became commonplace after the "double event," especially when the City of London Police offered the princely sum of 500 pounds.

Also, try as researchers might, none has discovered any contemporary reference to the "fire engine imitation," and that is just the sort of colorful description that journalists would have picked up on had it been currency at the time.

Don.

[Wickerman]

The statement attributed to Eddowes is almost assuredly fallacious.

I tend to think along the lines of, that for every 1-in-5 people who may have gossiped that they have some idea who the killer might be, in this case one of them became a victim. I don't think there is anything more to it than that.

I would also hazard a guess that the Superintendent simply reworded the story to make it more relevant.

And while Jon is right about Montagu, he was a very reluctant sponsor (he only raised the subject of his offering a reward because he thought the government would take over the financial burden). As a result, he certainly did not publicize his reward.

Didn't he approach both McWilliams & Arnold with his proposal?
I have no idea to what extent it was publicized, other than what we read in the press. A reward without publicity is like a shark without teeth.

The public need to know if it is to have any effect.

[Damaso Marte]

I'm sure that everybody in Whitechapel suspected that one of their stranger friends (or customers) was the killer, or at least entertained the possibility to some extent.

[lynn cates]

small

Hello Spyglass. There seems to have been a small subscription offered by locals at the time.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

labour

Hello Jon.

"My query about the comment by Kate is, 'did she find out who the killer was while in Kent, or did she know before they left?'"

Excellent question. One might offer that hard manual labour promotes satori. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

rewarding

Hello Don. NOW you show up. (heh-heh)

"As a result, he certainly did not publicize his reward. There were a couple of other small sums pledged, but the publicity was not great about them either."

Pretty well what I had thought. I can find almost no contemporary discussion of a reward until October (other than complaining about there not being one offered by police).

Cheers.
LC