Kidney From Hell

[DJA]

It's probably just co-incidence, but the mutilations do bear a striking resemblance to the Freemasony Ritualistic tradition. For those who are not aware of such, in Freemason tradition there was a ritual punishment of three Jewish craftsmen – Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum (aka the Juwes) – who murdered Hiram, the builder of Solomon's temple, and were condemned to death by Solomon. All had their throats cut from left to right, one was severed in two, another had his bowels burnt to ashes, and another had his heart ripped out and his “vitals” thrown over his shoulder.

This connection is generally derided because of the association with Stephen Knight and the popular movies on the royal conspiracy theory, to which I do not subscribe. But removed from those theories, I would not be surprised if JtR turned out to be a Freemason.

Cheers, George

The History and Meaning of the Apron | Freemasonry Matters

[FISHY1118]

Hi Fishy,

I would have difficulty arguing with your first paragraph. As for your second paragraph...give the Doc a break. This was a field sketch made in less that favourable lighting conditions.

Cheers, George

Hi George , i think you missed what i was alluding too , if you were Dr George and you were at the Eddowes murder scene doing that exact sketch as he did, what do you think you might put on the top left hand corner of the paper ?

Ill give you a clue, its on Fosters sketch.

So again, if the Brown sketch was indeed done at the murder scene [??? ] it doesnt change the fact Foster was at the Morguary when he done his. So it seems almost laughable he would copy Browns when Eddowes was right in front of him.

[DJA]

It's probably just co-incidence, but the mutilations do bear a striking resemblance to the Freemasony Ritualistic tradition. For those who are not aware of such, in Freemason tradition there was a ritual punishment of three Jewish craftsmen – Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum (aka the Juwes) – who murdered Hiram, the builder of Solomon's temple, and were condemned to death by Solomon. All had their throats cut from left to right, one was severed in two, another had his bowels burnt to ashes, and another had his heart ripped out and his “vitals” thrown over his shoulder.

This connection is generally derided because of the association with Stephen Knight and the popular movies on the royal conspiracy theory, to which I do not subscribe. But removed from those theories, I would not be surprised if JtR turned out to be a Freemason.

Cheers, George

9Q
130
How was you pass’d Master? A. From the Square to the Compass. Ex
131
An Enter’d ‘Prentis I presume you have been. Resp.
Jachin
and
Boaz
I have seen A Master-Mason I was made most rare, With Diamond, Ashler and the Square. Ex
132
If a Master-Mason you would be, You must rightly understand the Rule of Three. And *M.B. shall make you free;
*Machvenah
And what you want in Masonry, Shall in this Lodge be shewn to thee. Resp. Good Masonry I understand; The Keys of all Lodges are all at my command. Ex
133
You’re an heroick Fellow ; from whence came you? Resp. From the East. Ex
134
Where are you going? Resp. To the West. Ex
135
What are you going to do there? Resp. To seek for that which was lost and is now found. Ex
136
What was that which was lost and is now found? Resp. The Master-Mason’s Word. Ex
137
How was it lost? Resp. By Three Great Knocks, or the Death of our Master
Hiram.
Ex
138
How came he be his Death? Resp. In the Building of
Solomon’s
Temple he was Master-Mason, and at high 12 at Noon, when the Men was gone to refresh themselves, as was his usual Custom, he came to survey the Works, and when he was enter’d into the Temple, there were Three Ruffians, suppos’d to be Three Fellow-Crafts, planted themselves at the Three Entrances of the Temple, and when he came out, one demanded the Master’s Word of him, and he reply’d he did not receive it in such a manner, but Time and a little Patience would bring him to it : He, not satisfied with that Answer, gave him a Blow, which made him reel ; he went to the other Gate, where being accosted in the same manner,and making the same Reply, he received a greater Blow, and at the third his
Quietus.
Ex
139
What did the Ruffians kill him with? Resp. A Setting Maul, Setting Tool and Setting Beadle. Ex
140
How did they dispose of him? Resp. Carried him out at the West Door of the Temple, and hid him under some Rubbish till Highl 12 agai

[FISHY1118]

It's probably just co-incidence, but the mutilations do bear a striking resemblance to the Freemasony Ritualistic tradition. For those who are not aware of such, in Freemason tradition there was a ritual punishment of three Jewish craftsmen – Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum (aka the Juwes) – who murdered Hiram, the builder of Solomon's temple, and were condemned to death by Solomon. All had their throats cut from left to right, one was severed in two, another had his bowels burnt to ashes, and another had his heart ripped out and his “vitals” thrown over his shoulder.

This connection is generally derided because of the association with Stephen Knight and the popular movies on the royal conspiracy theory, to which I do not subscribe. But removed from those theories, I would not be surprised if JtR turned out to be a Freemason.

Cheers, George

Id say the Kelly murder certainley bears a striking resemblance the Freemason Ritual tradition.

Ive seen a lot worse Comparisons/ Theories on certain parts of the Ripper case than Knights assessment of Freemason involvement let me tell you that.

[Aethelwulf]

It's probably just co-incidence, but the mutilations do bear a striking resemblance to the Freemasony Ritualistic tradition. For those who are not aware of such, in Freemason tradition there was a ritual punishment of three Jewish craftsmen – Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum (aka the Juwes) – who murdered Hiram, the builder of Solomon's temple, and were condemned to death by Solomon. All had their throats cut from left to right, one was severed in two, another had his bowels burnt to ashes, and another had his heart ripped out and his “vitals” thrown over his shoulder.

This connection is generally derided because of the association with Stephen Knight and the popular movies on the royal conspiracy theory, to which I do not subscribe. But removed from those theories, I would not be surprised if JtR turned out to be a Freemason.

Cheers, George

I think you're probably correct with 'It's probably just co-incidence' - anyone could cut a throat left to right, as far as i'm aware none of the victims had there bowels burnt to ashes, and anyone wanting to get at the internal organs might well just place them over a shoulder to get them out of the way. This is one of those theories where people get so bound up in a bonkers explanation that they forget it is totally ridiculous - e.g., the nicks to the eyes of eddowes performed for some sort of surgical reason (xanthelasmas).

[DJA]

Seqenenre Tao - Wikipedia

[GBinOz]

Sutton does not seem to be a Freemason.If you read his lectures,he seems more interested in Judaism.
Apart from cutting her throat,most of her injuries were actually driven by research/displaying her medical history.

It's probably just co-incidence, but the mutilations do bear a striking resemblance to the Freemasony Ritualistic tradition. For those who are not aware of such, in Freemason tradition there was a ritual punishment of three Jewish craftsmen – Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum (aka the Juwes) – who murdered Hiram, the builder of Solomon's temple, and were condemned to death by Solomon. All had their throats cut from left to right, one was severed in two, another had his bowels burnt to ashes, and another had his heart ripped out and his “vitals” thrown over his shoulder.

This connection is generally derided because of the association with Stephen Knight and the popular movies on the royal conspiracy theory, to which I do not subscribe. But removed from those theories, I would not be surprised if JtR turned out to be a Freemason.

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

Thanks goerge for the Dr Brown sketch , but it doesnt prove foster used it while he was at the mortuary when he did his sketch does it ? After all he was in the morge with the body of Eddowes why would he use Browns sketch when Eddowes was laying on a table right there in front of him? . But i will bow to the fact that Brown did one first , but it changes nothing in my opinion as to the order of her wounds being after death .

Im curious George whats the one important thing missing on that sketch of dr brown ? , i would think its pretty important ,does it exist?

Hi Fishy,

I would have difficulty arguing with your first paragraph. As for your second paragraph...give the Doc a break. This was a field sketch made in less that favourable lighting conditions.

Cheers, George

[FISHY1118]

Well documented that Foster copied Dr Brown's sketch.

If Foster copied Browns sketch , why would he take the trouble to go to the morge a 3.45 AM to do his sketch ? , In the two hours between Eddowes death and the time Foster did the sketch, did brown give his drawing to Foster and say ''there you go buddy just use this'' ? Can we honestly see Foster standing over Eddowes body with Browns sketch in one hand trying to draw Eddowes on the table in front of him?, all the while looking at Browns sketch thinking ''Have i got this right''' ?

[FISHY1118]

Post mortem drawing done by Dr. F. Gordon Brown done at the scene of the murder of the fourth victim, Catherine Eddowes.

Thanks goerge for the Dr Brown sketch , but it doesnt prove foster used it while he was at the mortuary when he did his sketch does it ? After all he was in the morge with the body of Eddowes why would he use Browns sketch when Eddowes was laying on a table right there in front of him? . But i will bow to the fact that Brown did one first , but it changes nothing in my opinion as to the order of her wounds being after death .

Im curious George whats the one important thing missing on that sketch of dr brown ? , i would think its pretty important ,does it exist?

[DJA]

So Dave, what was the purpose of the two Xanthelasmas incisions, and the other injuries inflicted after her death and not actually required for her demise? Do you know if Sutton was a Mason?

Cheers, George

Sutton does not seem to be a Freemason.If you read his lectures,he seems more interested in Judaism.

Apart from cutting her throat,most of her injuries were actually driven by research/displaying her medical history.

Openshaw was a Mason.After taking over as Curator of the Pathology Museum,he became Sutton's boss.

[GBinOz]

The two Xanthelasmas required light and a small scalpel,so Sutton strangled Eddowes inside 6 Mitre Street, whilst waiting for Edward Watkin to make his 1.30am pass with lantern.
The other injuries would have been inflicted in the corner of Mitre Square.

So Dave, what was the purpose of the two Xanthelasmas incisions, and the other injuries inflicted after her death and not actually required for her demise? Do you know if Sutton was a Mason?

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

Show me the sketchers made by Dr Brown that are time and dated before 3.45am 30th sept 1888 ?
The ''truth'' is Eddowes facials injuries were done after death , and the Foster sketch proves it.

Post mortem drawing done by Dr. F. Gordon Brown done at the scene of the murder of the fourth victim, Catherine Eddowes.

[DJA]

There is no evidnce that Foster attended the crime scene all his sketches were made later and some may have been from the sketches made by Dr Brown.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Well documented that Foster copied Dr Brown's sketch.

[FISHY1118]

There is no evidnce that Foster attended the crime scene all his sketches were made later and some may have been from the sketches made by Dr Brown.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Pure conjecture on your part ,


Show me the sketchers made by Dr Brown that are time and dated before 3.45am 30th sept 1888 ?

The ''truth'' is Eddowes facials injuries were done after death , and the Foster sketch proves it.


ITs impossible they were done while she was alive and any attemt to prove otherwise is futile . see last post