The Goulston Street Apron

[pinkmoon]

I would like to thank you all tonight for not mentioning freemasons and royal coaches when discussing goulston street message

[I'veBeenToMitreSquare]

Forgive me for what I'm about to ask. This is my first post on Casebook, I have spent a short while rummaging around the site, listening to podcasts etc. and it's been very enjoyable (If "enjoyable" is the right word) I must say.
Anyhow, to the question....... Given that Catherine Eddowes' dress is still extant, if not the apron? Why hasn't it been DNA tested? Maybe it has been, without me noticing. I doubt it though.
I saw that programme, some time ago, where a small part of the dress was sent to Australia, looking for DNA from some suspect or other. Why then, can't it be tested for DNA from anyone and everyone?
I'm sure there must be many people's DNA on there but maybe just maybe JTR's is there too.
It's just a thought but one that's been nagging at me for some time. I realise that there are different kinds of DNA, at least I think that there are so any information that anyone can give me would be very much appreciated.

[pinkmoon]

It's was tested to see if it matched Fredrick deemings DNA it didn't .It was also tested against saliva on back of stamps and came back female.The deeming video is on you tube it's worth a watch.They were not able to get a full profile of d.n.a however as science improves that could be distinct possibility.

[Phil H]

Is Eddowes dress still extant - if so where?

I am aware of an alleged shawl?

Where would relevant DNA come from for suspects?

Phil

[pinkmoon]

I think they used the shawl for the deeming DNA.

[I'veBeenToMitreSquare]

Ahh, a shawl was it? Sorry for the confusion.

[nashwan]

Would anyone be able to say how much involvement the Metropolitan Police would have had in Catherine Eddowes' murder, if it wasn't for the finding of the apron and graffiti in Goulston Street?

Also, whether undercover or plain-clothes activity from the Met would have been tolerated or sanctioned on City of London Police's territory with their knowledge?

[All4One]

I'm inclined towards the theory that the bloodstained rag had actually been used by Eddowes as a sanitary towel. It would have been common practice for poor women to use any available material since the real thing would have been too expensive or unavailable. This would explain the feces on there and Goulston Street is on the route between Flower and Dean Street and Aldgate where she was arrested so it could have been there even before she died.

It may not be an exciting theory but it seems more plausible than the killer carrying a blood and feces soaked rag back towards the scene of the Stride killing for no reason when the whole area would be crawling with police.

[curious4]

I'm inclined towards the theory that the bloodstained rag had actually been used by Eddowes as a sanitary towel. It would have been common practice for poor women to use any available material since the real thing would have been too expensive or unavailable. This would explain the feces on there and Goulston Street is on the route between Flower and Dean Street and Aldgate where she was arrested so it could have been there even before she died.

It may not be an exciting theory but it seems more plausible than the killer carrying a blood and feces soaked rag back towards the scene of the Stride killing for no reason when the whole area would be crawling with police.

Hello All4one

Kate had, among other things, 12 pieces of bloodstained rags. I think these covered her needs in that direction.

Best wishes
C4

[Sleuth1888]

I'm inclined towards the theory that the bloodstained rag had actually been used by Eddowes as a sanitary towel. It would have been common practice for poor women to use any available material since the real thing would have been too expensive or unavailable. This would explain the feces on there and Goulston Street is on the route between Flower and Dean Street and Aldgate where she was arrested so it could have been there even before she died.

It may not be an exciting theory but it seems more plausible than the killer carrying a blood and feces soaked rag back towards the scene of the Stride killing for no reason when the whole area would be crawling with police.

Hi. I have two question regarding two different interpretations towards this scenario I would like you to answer.

1) are you assuming the killer held the apron and knife in his blooded hands, outside of his pockets in public, on show?

2) or are you saying he simply shoved everything into the pockets of whatever he was wearing?

Many thanks,
Sleuth

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Couldn't he use the piece of apron to carry the kidney?

[Wickerman]

Couldn't he use the piece of apron to carry the kidney?

Of course. I highly doubt anyone is going to soil their clothes with blood by stuffing organs in their pocket.

[Robert St Devil]

Hi. I have two question regarding two different interpretations towards this scenario I would like you to answer.

1) are you assuming the killer held the apron and knife in his blooded hands, outside of his pockets in public, on show?

Sleuth

Thats a very good question. Why walk with her apron?

What i see is, the ripping cut running down her belly. He doesnt just stab multiple times or try to slice thru her abdomen. He IS ripping her open, and by making this cut from xiphoid to pubic bone, he has inadvertently cut thru her colon. This contains the feculent matter that will cover her intestines. Its probable that he tried to contain the spillage by cutting off the colon and placing it between her arm and body. Im sure his red neckerchief would be fine for cleaning a bloody knife but he needs something else to clean the matter off his hands. He needs the apron because something unexpected has occurred.

[Rosella]

I do tend to think that Catherine's apron was used first for immediate cleaning purposes, for himself and knife. That feculent matter may well have covered his hands. He probably just slashed the bit of apron off the other half Catherine was wearing and wrapped the kidney in it at the last moment before leaving.

[Robert St Devil]

If he meant to take her kidney in the first place, he came prepared for it.