The Goulston Street Apron

[Fisherman]

Oh, and someone went around writing "Jesus Saves" on the back of a lot of street signs, so someone else went around and added "at Union Federal."

They had the "Jesus saves" text on Anfield Road too back in the eighties, and somebody added " "But Ian Rush scores from the rebound."

The best,
Fisherman

[Errata]

Because he thought the police would investigate the murder. It also didn't take them very many minutes to discover the graffiti and the chalk when they were actively searching. He'd probably been through a few close calls before and not just during this reign of murders. I think he knew what the police were about.

Mike

So you're saying that the police were doing a house to house search in Whitechapel? I was unaware of that.

[The Good Michael]

So you're saying that the police were doing a house to house search in Whitechapel? I was unaware of that.

A search of the area was begun at just after 2:00 am. Long was on patrol and noticed nothing, but later Halse (I believe), noticed that part of the apron was missing and it seems Long did indeed find it and the Graffiti at about 2:55. I imagine he was just patrolling, looking for who knows what, but after the apron knowledge came out at...say 2:20 or so, he was looking specifically for that. House to house, no, not to my knowledge.

Mike

[Supe]

Christer,

They had the "Jesus saves" text on Anfield Road too back in the eighties, and somebody added " "But Ian Rush scores from the rebound."

In "hockey mad" Boston when I was there in grad school during the 70s it was "Jesus saves. . . and Esposito puts in the rebound." Good lines have more lives than a coven of cats.

Don.

[RivkahChaya]

Good lines have more lives than a coven of cats.

Best graffiti I ever saw: bathroom wall, at my college, someone wrote (pardon the language*, but it's a direct quote)

I love ****-sucking!

So, someone added below it

Don't the feathers stick to your tongue?

My personal best, since you can only work with what you have, was when someone had written inside one of the stalls at my high school

Jesus is my savoir!

So I wrote

His standards must not be as high as Mrs. -----'s (one of the English teachers).

Someone else added

Or Miss -----'s (one of the French teachers)

*ETA: I see the board censors. Well, I guess you all can figure out it's a 4-letter synonym for rooster.

[RivkahChaya]

If it was as the PC stated...NOT there at 2:20ish, then the issue of where it went after Mitre Square and why the delay in showing up at that spot lead one towards speculation that the "droppee" may have selected the location.

Really? does it? Are you proposing a JTR who his behind the corner until her head the policeman coming by for his rounds, and dropped it just before he passed, to make sure that no one other than a policeman saw it? You can't presume a destination, as though once the apron was cut, the rag was headed for Goulston street, and didn't have time to dilly-dally somewhere else, or it might not get there by 2:20, and maybe you aren't, but it sounds a little bit like you are.

Actually, I really like the idea that the rag may have been for carrying the kidney, because I thought the "cleaning the knife" didn't make sense. He could have, it seemed to me, wiped the knife off on the apron on the spot in less time than it took to cut off a piece of it.

But I think he dropped the rag where he did either because he saw something on the ground better for carrying the kidney than a rag, or it clotted and dried enough that he could put it in his pocket. If that sounds squicky, this is a guy who just cut up a woman he killed, and wanted to make off with her kidney in the first place. He has different standards.

[Fisherman]

Of course, we must not believe that Charles Lechmere was the killer - but IF he had been, then a scenario where he kills Stride at close to one o clock, is disturbed, then proceeds along his old working route down to the area of Mitre Square, finds Eddowes, kills her, cuts the apron piece off to carry the innards in or to wipe his hands, proceeds to Pickfords, where he perhaps has a key to the localities, goes inside, washes his hands and cleans up generally, then leaves and starts to walk home, discards the apron piece in Goulston Street and walks home to Doveton Street - such a scenario would actually fit like a glove.
It would explain why the apron was not there earlier on.
It would explain why it was found in Goulston Street.
It would explain how the killer could clean up.

Any takers?

The best,
Fisherman

[Errata]

A search of the area was begun at just after 2:00 am. Long was on patrol and noticed nothing, but later Halse (I believe), noticed that part of the apron was missing and it seems Long did indeed find it and the Graffiti at about 2:55. I imagine he was just patrolling, looking for who knows what, but after the apron knowledge came out at...say 2:20 or so, he was looking specifically for that. House to house, no, not to my knowledge.

Mike

I'm not entirely sure that's correct, though I may be reading things wrong. Dr. Brown said he got to the scene at 2:20. We know that a fairly thorough evaluation was done at the scene, because there was a sketch artist present. But all parties say that they didn't discover that a piece of the apron was missing, or that there even was an apron until back at the mortuary when they started undressing her. It would have been completely understandable to assume that if the piece wasn't at the scene that it was still in his pocket or whatever. Since they didn't know which way he went, it doesn't make sense to send cops out to find the apron piece, since they couldn't possibly know it was there to be found. I certainly don't think Dr. Brown arrived at the scene, everyone finished what they needed from the corpse, got her back to the mortuary, started undressing her, discovered the missing piece, all with PC Long evidently close enough to be told that there was a piece of apron missing, and then have him locate it several blocks away all in half an hour. Because the apron piece is found half an hour after the doctor gets to the scene. Long also describes it as "catching his eye". Not that he was looking for it and found it. I would think the priority was catching the killer, not recovering a bit of the apron.
But I could be reading it wrong. Or maybe they were in fact super quick with getting her corpse out of there and onto a slab. And then I guess sending runners out to inform the officers already searching.

[The Good Michael]

I'm not entirely sure that's correct, though I may be reading things wrong. Dr. Brown said he got to the scene at 2:20. We know that a fairly thorough evaluation was done at the scene, because there was a sketch artist present. But all parties say that they didn't discover that a piece of the apron was missing, or that there even was an apron until back at the mortuary when they started undressing her. It would have been completely understandable to assume that if the piece wasn't at the scene that it was still in his pocket or whatever. Since they didn't know which way he went, it doesn't make sense to send cops out to find the apron piece, since they couldn't possibly know it was there to be found. I certainly don't think Dr. Brown arrived at the scene, everyone finished what they needed from the corpse, got her back to the mortuary, started undressing her, discovered the missing piece, all with PC Long evidently close enough to be told that there was a piece of apron missing, and then have him locate it several blocks away all in half an hour. Because the apron piece is found half an hour after the doctor gets to the scene. Long also describes it as "catching his eye". Not that he was looking for it and found it. I would think the priority was catching the killer, not recovering a bit of the apron.
But I could be reading it wrong. Or maybe they were in fact super quick with getting her corpse out of there and onto a slab. And then I guess sending runners out to inform the officers already searching.

It was at 2:35 that she was brought to the mortuary. She was immediately examined and that's where missing buttons were noticed and Halse noticed the apron. It seems that just after that the apron was discovered by Long. It is possible that the killer placed it sometime between 2:21 and 2:55, or that Long missed it the first time...Halse too if I'm not mistaken, and it had been placed any time after the murder, but before 2:20. yet there was ample time for officers to have been told to look for items of clothing or anything on the ground that could have belonged to a woman. I suggest that in the beginning they were looking for a killer and upon a re-search, not so much so.

Mike

[lynn cates]

where to

Hello Christer.

"It would explain why the apron was not there earlier on.
It would explain why it was found in Goulston Street.
It would explain how the killer could clean up."

But would it explain where those organs went? Did he carry them home? Leave them at Pickfords? Have a hurried, uncooked snack? Feed a dog?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

information

Hello Michael.

"yet there was ample time for officers to have been told to look for items of clothing or anything on the ground that could have belonged to a woman. I suggest that in the beginning they were looking for a killer and upon a re-search, not so much so."

So you are suggesting that he got information from a beat supervisor to look for clothing?

Cheers.
LC

[Lechmere]

If you don't want to believe that Long missed the apron on his earlier round and if Lechmere did it, then he could have left the kidney at his workplace in a cubby hole usually used for horse tackle etc.

When Long found the aporn I believe he was unaware that either murder had taken place.
By the by this tells me that Long was quite possibly skiving. This was his first day seconded to the east end from the west end and he was discharged for drunkenness less than a year later.

[Errata]

Hello Michael.

"yet there was ample time for officers to have been told to look for items of clothing or anything on the ground that could have belonged to a woman. I suggest that in the beginning they were looking for a killer and upon a re-search, not so much so."

So you are suggesting that he got information from a beat supervisor to look for clothing?

Cheers.
LC

And why would they have the expectation that the piece of cloth was out there to be found, as opposed to still on the killer? I don't recall anyone being given orders to look for organs laying about, presumably because they figured if it wasn't at the crime scene, then the killer still had it. Why would the apron piece be different?

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael.



So you are suggesting that he got information from a beat supervisor to look for clothing?

Not really. I'm saying there would have been ample time to spread the word for such a thing. I believe they would have been told to examine the ground thoroughly, that the killer was probably long gone. It isn't clear what they investigated initially, but I suggest it was a search more concentrated (because of immediacy, and trepidation) on finding a killer and not so much on sifting through trash on the ground.

Mike

[The Good Michael]

I
By the by this tells me that Long was quite possibly skiving. This was his first day seconded to the east end from the west end and he was discharged for drunkenness less than a year later.

I think skiving, or at least not being on high alert, would have been the norm for beat cops until they heard a whistle, a rattle, or a "Hey Police!" I agree that Long didn't know about the first murder, and neither did Halse, and that would have made it easy for them to just kind of roust suspicious people (teens and foreigners mostly) and not pay any particular attention to anything else. It is human nature.

Mike