The Goulston Street Apron

[RivkahChaya]

I thought the whole reason the order was passed was BECAUSE there were so many dogs running loose at a time when rabies was a very real threat? If not, why did they bother passing it?

So, much as I hate the bloody doggy theory, it seems to remain a possibility...

Well, the salient point really is that it isn't necessary for the killer to have dropped it there, for it to have come to be there.

Like a lot of things, we have assumptions predicated on other assumptions.

I did like Mike R's (who I can't help picturing as looking like Kramer; sorry about that) suggestion that the rag may have been used to carry the kidney, rather than clean the knife, because cleaning the knife while retreating seems like a good way to cut oneself. It could be that there was a jar, or something else that had been thrown away-- or even newspaper-- that seemed like a better option for carrying the kidney, and so it got discarded there. If it was the entrance to a block of residences, is it where people would put out garbage? I realize that people didn't have as much trash as they do now, because everything didn't come in wrappers, and people never used disposable things, but they did have food waste, and occasionally broken plates or things, ashes when they cleaned grates, and old newspapers. Was there some kind of regular trash pick-up?

[The Good Michael]

At the risk of being boring and repetitious and logical, the best we can ever say about how the apron got to where it finally ended up, is that there are possibilities it wasn't placed there on purpose. Until we have eyewitness statements stating that dogs ran off with it or that it was taken by a passing hobo and then dropped in disgust unintentionally, but exactly where it would cause a police reaction, we kind of have to consider it having been placed under the chalk as the most likely of the possible occurrences, though not without room for doubt.

Mike

[caz]

...and in the city where I went to college there was "catch-spay/neuter (or it may even have been vasectomize)-release" program to reduce the stray cat population...

Hi Rivkah,

We are talking about stray dogs, or owners who let their dogs out at night to roam the streets on their own. Cats are a completely different kettle of fish. They don't have owners, only 'staff', and they always go walkies on their own at night.

So on balance it's more likely that Diddles took it than a stray Barnaby or Burgho.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Actually I'm sure you're right. The Jews were noted as spending their money on food and cleaning products rather than lace curtains and were looked down on by some other groups because of this. But the apron certainly and the graffito probably occurred in the small hours of the night when most Jewish balabostas--(what you call a notable housewife in Yiddish) were safely in bed and asleep so didn't have the chance to clear up the mess around the front door.

Bingo! I agree entirely, Chava.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Shaggy dog story

Was not the previously referenced dog muzzling order (in response to rabies scares) passed as late as July 1889? (Think Kosminski appeared in court on related charges in December 1889)

I thought the whole reason the order was passed was BECAUSE there were so many dogs running loose at a time when rabies was a very real threat? If not, why did they bother passing it?

So, much as I hate the bloody doggy theory, it seems to remain a possibility...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave,

Good point, but how many stray dogs have you ever seen wearing a muzzle? Any dogs running loose between the City and Goulston St in the middle of the night would have been ownerless. What were they meant to do when the order was passed - muzzle themselves?

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Another thought for the day - even if graffiti routinely defaced every other wall in Whitechapel, how many examples would they have expected to see of complete sentences stretching to fourteen words? Wouldn't that be very unusual for your average antisocial lout?

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Whoops, miscounted. It was only a dozen word sentence. Sorry folks.

[The Good Michael]

Another thought for the day - even if graffiti routinely defaced every other wall in Whitechapel, how many examples would they have expected to see of complete sentences stretching to fourteen words? Wouldn't that be very unusual for your average antisocial lout?

Right Caz. We talked about this before the crash. Graffiti is usually some simple idea and antisocial like F U, or For a good time, call Annie....this seems most unusual to me as it is a complex, if ambiguous message. To be fair, I've seen Viking runes in Orkney that are pretty complex as well and that a long time ago.

Mike

[Errata]

Another thought for the day - even if graffiti routinely defaced every other wall in Whitechapel, how many examples would they have expected to see of complete sentences stretching to fourteen words? Wouldn't that be very unusual for your average antisocial lout?

Love,

Caz
X

Well, here are some other examples of 19th century graffiti.

"Whoever is the human instrument under God in the conversion of one soul, erects a monument to his own memory more lofty and enduing [sic) than this."
found on the Washington Monument

"Sarah Walters Mary Davies Anne Harris Sarah Harris fattening 26 geese in Dec 1878"
on a farm wall

"Use the London Tea Company's famous pure teas."
on a wall in London

My personal favorite, "Hamlet, Prince of Denmark, on a Sunday, 24th September 1865."
on a work house wall

(for many more of these, http://www.workhouses.org.uk/vagrants/graffiti.shtml)

and then of course the usual long strings of profanity and initials. And evidently quite a few caricatures.

So while short and sweet graffiti was likely more prominent, longer writings were hardly unheard of.

[RivkahChaya]

n nsll

Someone spray painted "Ce n'y est jamais d'art sans vandalisme," which I'm pretty sure would be just as cryptic in Paris, around the town where I went to high school and college, but you get that with a lot of 18-year-olds. There was one bathroom where there were theses on bisexuality, with semi-colons.

There was also a bar in town with a date-rapist list on the wall of the women's bathroom.

Oh, and someone went around writing "Jesus Saves" on the back of a lot of street signs, so someone else went around and added "at Union Federal."

[Cogidubnus]

Good point, but how many stray dogs have you ever seen wearing a muzzle? Any dogs running loose between the City and Goulston St in the middle of the night would have been ownerless. What were they meant to do when the order was passed - muzzle themselves?

Hi Caz

Good point...though I wonder whether the custom in those days might've been to put out the dog at night (much as later generations put out the cat)...I do think, in certain circles, dogs might've been put out to fend for/feed themselves during the day...but at night? Anyone know?

All the best

Dave

PS The fact that strays couldn't muzzle themselves wouldn't stop parliament passing a useless, innefective, kneejerk law...the one reassuring thing about politicians is their consistency (usually thick and sticky).

[Michael W Richards]

At the risk of being boring and repetitious and logical, the best we can ever say about how the apron got to where it finally ended up, is that there are possibilities it wasn't placed there on purpose. Until we have eyewitness statements stating that dogs ran off with it or that it was taken by a passing hobo and then dropped in disgust unintentionally, but exactly where it would cause a police reaction, we kind of have to consider it having been placed under the chalk as the most likely of the possible occurrences, though not without room for doubt.

Mike

Hi Mike,

The question of intent versus simple discard with respect to the apron section is impacted greatly by the time it took to arrive at the doorway.

If it was as the PC stated...NOT there at 2:20ish, then the issue of where it went after Mitre Square and why the delay in showing up at that spot lead one towards speculation that the "droppee" may have selected the location. Since he would have had the time to decide where to put it. In which case the writing and the location itself would be very relevant.

Cheers Mike

[Cogidubnus]

Personally none of the foregoing, (comforting to Trevor as some of it might be!), convinces me the apron piece was chucked there by anyone other than the killer...and at that casually, the grafitto probably being a pre-existing red herring...

I reckon the later time for the dumping of the apron piece is a red herring too - Why after all would PC Long have paid specific attention to looking into the passage at 0220? Bet he paid special attention at 0255 though after hearing of the murder and the necessity for increased vigilance...and of course spotted it ok at that point...

Wild surmise of course...but most conclusions are!

All the best

Dave

[Errata]

So here's a thought stream that comes close to an idea or notion.

I don't know how Jack could have dropped that apron piece there on purpose and be even remotely guaranteed that it would get into the hands he wants it in. While the piece of cloth was largish, refuse on the street does not attract notice. At roughly 1.5 x 3 ft, it could probably have passed for newspaper. The graffiti was not on the outside wall, the cloth was in the stairway, and none of this is lit, and it's raining off and on. Some think it's strange that PC Long didn't find it sooner. I'm surprised he found it at all. So what happens if he doesn't find it? Presumably a resident comes out in the morning, finds the cloth and the graffiti. The cloth gets tossed and the graffiti gets washed off. And even when the resident finds out about the murders, he still doesn't connect the cloth or the graffiti. Graffiti is common. Street trash, even stained white cloths are also common. Neither of the women were murdered on his street, why would he think it was connected? So Jack's grand gesture dies unnoticed. So why make a grand gesture in a place where it could easily be missed?

[The Good Michael]

So here's a thought stream that comes close to an idea or notion.

I don't know how Jack could have dropped that apron piece there on purpose and be even remotely guaranteed that it would get into the hands he wants it in. While the piece of cloth was largish, refuse on the street does not attract notice. At roughly 1.5 x 3 ft, it could probably have passed for newspaper. The graffiti was not on the outside wall, the cloth was in the stairway, and none of this is lit, and it's raining off and on. Some think it's strange that PC Long didn't find it sooner. I'm surprised he found it at all. So what happens if he doesn't find it? Presumably a resident comes out in the morning, finds the cloth and the graffiti. The cloth gets tossed and the graffiti gets washed off. And even when the resident finds out about the murders, he still doesn't connect the cloth or the graffiti. Graffiti is common. Street trash, even stained white cloths are also common. Neither of the women were murdered on his street, why would he think it was connected? So Jack's grand gesture dies unnoticed. So why make a grand gesture in a place where it could easily be missed?

Because he thought the police would investigate the murder. It also didn't take them very many minutes to discover the graffiti and the chalk when they were actively searching. He'd probably been through a few close calls before and not just during this reign of murders. I think he knew what the police were about.

Mike