The Goulston Street Apron

[Abby Normal]

I'm not sure that one can establish a link between the Ripper and Judaism based on the proximity of some murder scenes to Jewish cemeteries.

The Nichols, Stride and Eddowes killings all occured remarkably close to schools. You might as well conclude that the killer was a teacher.

hi All4one
welcome. I agree.

There are only 3 direct links (evidence) between the ripper case and Judaism. The GSG, the shouting of "lipski" and Hutch's description of his suspect as Jewish.

One can draw there own conclusion if these three bits of evidence are related TO EACH OTHER. personally, I think that there is a good chance they are.

[curious4]

I feel it is pretty much of a coincidence also that the first murder that night happened in the yard of the Jewish Working Man's Educational Club and the second adjacent to the Great Synagogue....

International working men's educational club, Ichabod. Open to all. Admittedly most of the working men in the area were jewish, but it was a socialist club. I imagine the killer was inspired by the Leather Apron debacle and by placing the piece of apron where he did, and with the graffito, tried to make everyone, including the police, believe that the jews were to blame, even if Leather Apron wasn't. Even if the attempt was a bit obvious.

Best wishes
C4

[All4One]

I'm not sure that one can establish a link between the Ripper and Judaism based on the proximity of some murder scenes to Jewish cemeteries.

The Nichols, Stride and Eddowes killings all occured remarkably close to schools. You might as well conclude that the killer was a teacher.

[IchabodCrane]

If Jewish people were a small minority, I would agree. But I think they were around 40% of the Whitechapel/Spitalfield population.

The connection of the murder locations Buck's Row, Hanbury Street and Dorset Street to the Jewish community is not as obvious as that of the locations of the double event, and of Goulston street where the apron was dropped. To my mind, one of the few things that can be stated about the Ripper with a certainty of over 85% is therefore: the intention of killer on the night of the double event was to direct suspicion towards the Jewish community, he wrote the Goulston graffito, and from this follows that he was not completely illiterate and that he was himself a gentile. The other almost certain assumption being that he was male.

[DJA]

Yep.

The graffito could be a "take" on the Jews not being blamed for Jesus crucifixion.

Only in the religious and philosophical sense.

Matthews,a Roman Catholic,never married.

He and Abberline also ran the Cleveland Street cover up.

[packers stem]

The anxious interest of the Home Secretary in any alternative to Jack the Ripper placing the "bib" at Goulston Street is odd.

Precisely DJA, why worry about the link to something they'd already removed and decided to pass off as anti-semitic graffiti. If they didn't believe the message to mean something more important there's no need to clarify that the 'bib' was deposited there by the killer.Quite bizarre. I'd place my house on if it read "it's the Jews what done it guv" this letter/memo would not exist

[DJA]

....and back to Simon's original

The anxious interest of the Home Secretary in any alternative to Jack the Ripper placing the "bib" at Goulston Street is odd.

[packers stem]

....and back to Simon's original post does anyone else find the use of the word 'bib' rather than apron to be odd?
A bib you would consider to be high up,maybe the upper part of an apron...just seems a strange choice of word

[Rosella]

I would tend to agree with you. But on the VICTORIAN LONDON: THEN AND NOW map on this site, it looks like it reads "Jew Cemetery" next to the Buck Rows murder site.

Yes, it was a very old cemetery, no longer used, I believe.

[All4One]

What proof is there that any decision to take a kidney (if he did so) was sudden.

I'm guessing if was preplanned he would have come prepared with something to carry the kidney. If he had to improvise then that suggests to me it was a more 'spur of the moment' thing.

Tupperware boxes are so convenient.

[Robert St Devil]

But is there anywhere in Whitechapel that this sort of connection couldn't be made?

If not to Jewish locations, to schools or churches or some other group of properties.

I would tend to agree with you. But on the VICTORIAN LONDON: THEN AND NOW map on this site, it looks like it reads "Jew Cemetery" next to the Buck Rows murder site.

[DJA]

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/LotDetailsPrintable.aspx?intObjectID=5188595

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barthold_Douma_van_Burmania

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Hi Rivkah
Can you give further examples of graffiti written in this way, bearing in mind the east end literacy rates at this time.
If it said "oh lord,it must be the Jewish immigrants who are responsible for these heinous activities "
Would you say that's normal graffiti for the area?
Do you not think a local would have written differently? Graffiti, by nature,uses shortened, slang words and they would spell nothing and blamed wrong before spelling Jews wrong, it's a word they would see everyday in the area.it's a nonsense to suggest it's just everyday local slang graffiti

Just an idea, but would it be possible that the graffiti was written only minutes before, as a reaction to the Stride murder on a house known to be mostly jewish lodgers?

As I recall some graffitis were written soon after the murders of Nichols and Chapman.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

I feel it is pretty much of a coincidence also that the first murder that night happened in the yard of the Jewish Working Man's Educational Club and the second adjacent to the Great Synagogue....

If Jewish people were a small minority, I would agree. But I think they were around 40% of the Whitechapel/Spitalfield population.

[packers stem]

I'm willing to believe he either took the kidney on impulse, or just planned badly, and so he took part of her apron to carry the kidney, but then happened upon something, like a glass or pail, or even butcher paper, that was more suited to carrying it, and so he left the apron and took the kidney off in the new container. The graffito is a coincidence. There was probably lots of graffiti in that part of the city, and the chances were that wherever the apron landed, it would have landed near some kind of graffito.

Hi Rivkah
Can you give further examples of graffiti written in this way, bearing in mind the east end literacy rates at this time.
If it said "oh lord,it must be the Jewish immigrants who are responsible for these heinous activities "
Would you say that's normal graffiti for the area?
Do you not think a local would have written differently? Graffiti, by nature,uses shortened, slang words and they would spell nothing and blamed wrong before spelling Jews wrong, it's a word they would see everyday in the area.it's a nonsense to suggest it's just everyday local slang graffiti