Eddowes Pawn Ticket/Finances (moved from another thread)

[Beowulf]

...now leaving aside the dubious tale of visiting her daughter, that afternoon somebody for sure plied her with multiple drinks to get her into that sort of state...this surely wasn't just a large measure of gin, indicating a client perhaps...this was more in the nature of a prolonged drinking session leaving her totally rat-arsed...

So who bought her the drinks? And in what expectation?

...Dave

I always thought it obvious. She got the money when she pawned John Kelly's boots.

[lynn cates]

alternate funding

Hello Barbara. But if John is truthful, they had spent that money by mid-day Saturday. Kate was then supposedly off to Annie's for more funds.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello Barbara. But if John is truthful, they had spent that money by mid-day Saturday. Kate was then supposedly off to Annie's for more funds.

Cheers.
LC

Not to mention that she was killed in a place almost completely surrounded by policemen and none of these trained people saw or heard anything -- going from memory of a long ago thread now.

broke all day, but roaring drunk -- or was she?

Released too soon . . . if she was really THAT drunk, would she have been released so soon?

surrounded by policeman but murdered and mutilated by a speedy, silent wraith.

a lot of very strange circumstances by the way I see things.

[lynn cates]

strange

Hello Velma. Thanks.

"Not to mention that she was killed in a place almost completely surrounded by policemen and none of these trained people saw or heard anything -- going from memory of a long ago thread now."

Your memory serves you well.

"broke all day, but roaring drunk -- or was she?"

There were no fewer than 4 officers--Robinson, the one who helped her to Bishopsgate, Hutt and Byfield--who would affirm that she was completely snoggered.

"Released too soon . . . if she was really THAT drunk, would she have been released so soon?"

She was questioned and pronounced sufficiently sober.

"surrounded by policeman but murdered and mutilated by a speedy, silent wraith."

Yes. And this has intrigued me for nearly 40 years.

"a lot of very strange circumstances by the way I see things."

But the strangest of all are John's dicta.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Barbara. But if John is truthful, they had spent that money by mid-day Saturday. Kate was then supposedly off to Annie's for more funds.

Cheers.
LC

But if John is only telling the court what Kate told him, and we do have some indication Kate lied at least about going to her daughters, then why point the finger at John?

Regards, Jon S.
(struggling on my third computer in 6 months, they sure don't make things the way they used to )

[lynn cates]

the finger

Hello Jon. Thanks. Well, I point the finger at his testimony/interviews. His "Echo" interview contradicts a good bit of the standard story.

Cheers.
LC

[Tecs]

On a more serious note than above, jasn't it always been assumed that the victims had earned their money for a bed, sometimes several times over, but spent it on drink instead? Obviously clients are not going to come forward to admit that, yes, I went with Annie, polly etc so we have no way of knowing. But it is interesting to speculate if Jack did spend time with the victims ensuring that they were drunk and vulnerable. Then, to provide some sort of an alibi perhaps, he left but made arrangements to meet later for "more of the same." None of the women could refuse the chance to be plied with drink in return for an encounter so it would be an offer they couldn't refuse.

Maybe that would explain why Kate went the wrong way after leaving the police station or why Stride was hanging around waiting for someone?

Possible?


regards,

[Wickerman]

Maybe that would explain why Kate went the wrong way after leaving the police station or why Stride was hanging around waiting for someone?

Kate's reason for walking one way or the other out of Bishopsdate Police Station could be as innocuous as her deciding to walk with her back to the wind instead of against it. We don't know if it was windy but the answer might be quite simple.

Thanks for the GM funnies.

Yes, I can hear the female voice assisted commands now...."do you wish to apply the brakes full, or slowly?"...stomp...stomp....stomp...." please reply, is this an emergency stop?" (smash!).

[Beowulf]

Hello Barbara. But if John is truthful, they had spent that money by mid-day Saturday. Kate was then supposedly off to Annie's for more funds.

Cheers.
LC

I guess I got that wrong. I thought they parted with him giving her his boots as she had no money and she was off to a pawn shop without him. I considered that a true Walter Raleighish move on his part.

[lynn cates]

What's in a name?

Hello Barbara. Thanks.

The pawn ticket read Friday. But, if you take John's testimony at inquest and place it in conjunction with his two interviews and construct a time line, BOTH Friday and Saturday pawnings become problematic.

Here's a titbit. Was Kate Eddowes's name on the pawn ticket?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

What ever name she gave would be on the pawn ticket, yes?

[ChrisGeorge]

What ever name she gave would be on the pawn ticket, yes?

Maybe there was "Nothing" on the pawn ticket.

[lynn cates]

false name

Hello Jon. Thanks.

It would indeed--and for whomever it was.

I have always understood why a poor East Ender would give a false name to a copper or beak. But why on earth would one wish to give a false name to pawn something?

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

But why on earth would one wish to give a false name to pawn something?

What if the items to be pawned were stolen.

What if the pawnbroker knew you by your name so the pawn ticket could not be passed onto someone else to redeem.

[lynn cates]

keeping up with Jones

Hello Jon. Thanks.

You are correct about stolen goods. And it would make more sense that John had stolen them than to have bought them whilst being broke.

Jones was VERY good about recognising stolen property. He was called on by various courts to testify to same.

Cheers.
LC