Eddowes Pawn Ticket/Finances (moved from another thread)

[Paddy]

Re Hoofing
Lynn Thanks,
Being a Cockney myself I found Kellys choice of the word strange.

If someone said how did you get back, one could say "on the oof"
But the way he worded it "Hoofed it back" it implied slight haste. There are nuances even with cockney. My lot would probably have said "Shankseys Pony" (walking) Strange all very horse related !

Also re coming back 2 weeks late. There is apple or sprout picking after hops maybe they found a little work? Or when the famer done his final tally they stayed on a bit and partied. We always used to stay on at least a week and visit local towns and have a spend.
We used to do the trip in a lorry with lots of stops on the way. I remember Blackheath and Shooters hill, after that there was lots of trees fields and loads of "are we there yet".

[Debra A]

Excellent. many thanks Debs!! I`ll bookmark that site, cheers :-)

In the 1881 Census there is a John and Mary Ann Kelly living at 3 Little Paternoster Row. The age is correct for John but three years difference for Mary Ann. She is a charwoman and he`s a dock labourer (although i`m sure he was working for Lander the fruiterer since 1878). Both born in Whitechapel. This is the closest I can find for the couple. What do you think?

Hi again, Jon.
Last year, Lynn asked me about this particular couple from Paternoster Row and whether I thought they were John Kelly and Catherine Eddowes. I looked in the Infirmary Regsisters and concluded they were a different couple, is that what you are also saying too?-apologies-I haven't read the whole thread.

I believe Eddowes partner,John Kelly, is listed in the Infirmary records as a market porter and that one of his last entries there was in 1890 with dropsy:

Whitechapel Infirmary
#4535 Mon Feb. 24 1890, John Kelly, age 49, 55 Flower and Dean St, single, market porter, cause of admittance-dropsy, discharged 27 Feb 1890.

There is a little bit about it on this forums thread:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=12219

[Robert]

Surely Eddowes is listed as Eddowes?

With the searches, although Ancestry use Free BMD data for stuff before 1916, the search engines aren't the same. If you search Free BMD for John A Smith you get all those registered as John A Smith plus John Alfred Smith, John Alexander Smith etc. With Ancestry you don't get the middle name unless you include it as part of the search term. If you search for John A Smith, all you'll get is "John A Smith." So when only the initial is known, it's best to search for John Smith and then you'll get the lot. Or use Free BMD. Sometimes Free BMD grinds really slow and then Ancestry is a good substitute.

[Bridewell]

1881

Excellent. many thanks Debs!! I`ll bookmark that site, cheers :-)

In the 1881 Census there is a John and Mary Ann Kelly living at 3 Little Paternoster Row. The age is correct for John but three years difference for Mary Ann. She is a charwoman and he`s a dock labourer (although i`m sure he was working for Lander the fruiterer since 1878). Both born in Whitechapel. This is the closest I can find for the couple. What do you think?

Hi Jon & Debs,

In the 1881 census there's also a 23-year-old Mary Kelly "prostitute" living in the District Infirmary of the Whitechapel Union on Bakers Row. She's probably too young to have been John Kelly's partner though.
It's a bit prosaic, but is it not possible that this was the name given by all the street prostitutes whenever they encountered officialdom? If so, perhaps MJK just took it a stage further by using it all the time. That scenario would explain Caroline Maxwell & Maurice Lewis having seen a woman they knew as "Mary Kelly" on the morning of 9th November.

[Jon Guy]

Excellent. many thanks Debs!! I`ll bookmark that site, cheers :-)

In the 1881 Census there is a John and Mary Ann Kelly living at 3 Little Paternoster Row. The age is correct for John but three years difference for Mary Ann. She is a charwoman and he`s a dock labourer (although i`m sure he was working for Lander the fruiterer since 1878). Both born in Whitechapel. This is the closest I can find for the couple. What do you think?

[Debra A]

Hi Jon, free BMD list Mary Ann Kelly's death in their index, but like you, I couldn't see it on Ancestry either.

Deaths Jun 1888

KELLY Mary Ann 42 Whitechapel 1c 173

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

I had a quick scan on Ancestry to see if I can see a Mary Ann Kelly dying in Whitechapel but there was nothing of note, only one in Bethnal Green in the early 1880`s.

I`ll have to get hold of that edition of Ripperana and Mark King`s findings.

[lynn cates]

helpful

Hello Jon. Thanks. That helps.

Wonder how much is known about her?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

coming back

Hello Paddy. To walk that far seems common. My difficulty lies in the fact that most Londoners were coming back 2-3 weeks earlier.

John, in his "Echo" interview, seems to say as much.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

Finally found where I got the seed of an idea that John Kelly`s missus pre-Eddowes was called Mary Ann.

This is a link to post 21 by Wolf:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=3495&page=3

[Wickerman]

Hoofing=walking
Hopping=picking hops in Kent

[Paddy]

Coming back from hopping.

Hi all,
Would anybody have any thoughts on Kellys statement of them "Hoofing" it back from hopping?

Pat................

[Wickerman]

I bet he was thrilled to bits with that arrangement!

Easy to see who was boss at that house....

[lynn cates]

go to work

Hello Colin. Indeed. One wonders how he managed to work the next day?

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

My missus pawned the boots, and I stood outside the shop with bare feet.
Daily News, 5 Oct. 1888.

Regards, Jon S.

I bet he was thrilled to bits with that arrangement!