Why Mutilate The Nose Specifically?

[Cogidubnus]

Oh come on Jon...How difficult or spy-like is it to envisage the blackmailed turning on the blackmailer? Whilst speculative, it's not exactly a complicated motive.

All the best

Dave

[Wickerman]

Hi Dave,

It would also indicate that Eddowes herself was identified by her killer as an informer. (Prostitutes have always been a good source of information for the police - at least some of them). It would have to be serious informing about someone very nasty to provoke such a vicious response. If she really did know the identity of the 'Ripper', how on earth did he get her to drop her guard?

Begins to sound too much like espionage..
I mean, how ironic is it that the killer knew where she was, at what time, on that night?
Someone informed on the informer?

See what I mean...

[Bridewell]

My gut-feel, and that's all it is really, unless Lynn comes up with something firmer, , is that it's a warning to others to keep their traps shut - lopping the nose was, I believe, the traditional punishment for a snitch...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave,

It would also indicate that Eddowes herself was identified by her killer as an informer. (Prostitutes have always been a good source of information for the police - at least some of them). It would have to be serious informing about someone very nasty to provoke such a vicious response. If she really did know the identity of the 'Ripper', how on earth did he get her to drop her guard?

[Cogidubnus]

My gut-feel, and that's all it is really, unless Lynn comes up with something firmer, , is that it's a warning to others to keep their traps shut - lopping the nose was, I believe, the traditional punishment for a snitch...

All the best

Dave

[Bridewell]

Actually, it seemed as if some here were suggesting this. I don't think so, I think he seems to have shown genuine mourning.

Just wondering if that's where some were going.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I had no agenda in starting the thread. It just seemed, to me, strange that a killer who had to do whatever he did within a very narrow time frame would waste time slicing the nose off unless there was some kind of purpose - however perverse.

[Beowulf]

Actually, it seemed as if some here were suggesting this. I don't think so, I think he seems to have shown genuine mourning.

Just wondering if that's where some were going.

[Wickerman]

If the point of removing the nose was to send a message, then might that indicate a killer with education?
Or, is it reasonable to assume the common east end dosser would know something typically gained from reading classic literature?

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

proposal

Hello Barbara. Here are some difficulties for your proposal.

1. If Kate had been recently prostituting, why were they without money?

2. If John wished to kill Kate, surely there were easier ways to do it?

3. If the nose were a warning/sign, surely it would be difficult for a dead woman to read?

Cheers.
LC

[Beowulf]

It's been suggested that the facial mutilation inflicted on Eddowes may have been done as a warning to someone. I guess though, if it wasn't completely random, another possibility is that Eddowes herself was being punished in some way.

I've found the following which outlines reasons why, historically, nasal amputation was inflicted as punishment:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689568/

Is anyone here of the belief or at least the suspicion, or maybe just the wonder if? that John Kelly murdered Catherine Eddowes because she prostituted herself, hence the mutilation to the nose?

[lynn cates]

fast

Hello Velma. Thanks. Yes, it was rather fast--especially as she talked as though she were headed home.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello Velma. Thanks.

I thought we were heading towards some police implication. Sorry, if I misread.

Cheers.
LC

Hi, Lynn,

Actually, rereading it, I see that that is how it reads.

could be. could be not.

Just wondering at the speed with which she was killed after leaving the station and how that might have happened.

[Observer]

Catherine Eddowes dead within 45 minutes of leaving Bishopgate Police Station dodgy ? Why is that? A lone woman out on the streets in an area where a known serial killer of prostitutes had murdered another prostitute only 35 minutes prior to what would prove to be her own death . Not so dodgy to me.

[Observer]

Who financed Catherine Eddowes drinking session prior to her murder?

In my opinion Monty came closest to answering this question. I have tried to find his post on the matter, but have been unable to do so. The following is not dissimilar to his reasoning.

Firstly let me say that I have knowledge of this class of individual, rest assured though, I do not mean to belittle them here.

They live from day to day, life's dregs, each has a story to tell, and more often than not life has dealt them a bum hand. A lot of them drink to excess, and they know that if they have no money for drink, their fellow sufferers who happen to be in funds will stand them a drink or two. I'm sure John Kelly and Catherine Eddowes reciprocated the gesture when they found themslelves with a few bob in their pockets. It's a form of insurance, and it works.

I believe this is where Catherine Eddowes sourced her drink that day.

Also, Catherine Eddowes was malnourished, she was no stranger to the bottle, subsequently, I don't think it would have took too much alcohol to put her on her back.

[lynn cates]

oops

Hello Velma. Thanks.

I thought we were heading towards some police implication. Sorry, if I misread.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello Velma.

"Might it also mean that someone at Bishopsgate informed the assassin and had some control over when she was released?"

Sounds like an implication of someone. I try to avoid those.

Cheers.
LC

Just seeing that her killer was Johnny-on-the-spot in some way. How?