Why Mutilate The Nose Specifically?

[Bridewell]

It's been suggested that the facial mutilation inflicted on Eddowes may have been done as a warning to someone. I guess though, if it wasn't completely random, another possibility is that Eddowes herself was being punished in some way.

I've found the following which outlines reasons why, historically, nasal amputation was inflicted as punishment:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689568/

I thought the following particularly interesting:

In ancient times, the laws in various countries established amputation of the nose, as corporal punishment, for misdeeds such as adultery,

Also this:

Rhinotomy may well have been due to revenge on the part of the husband who had been betrayed and this type of retaliation was tolerated already by Roman law.

[Wickerman]

It's been suggested that the facial mutilation inflicted on Eddowes may have been done as a warning to someone. I guess though, if it wasn't completely random, another possibility is that Eddowes herself was being punished in some way.

I've found the following which outlines reasons why, historically, nasal amputation was inflicted as punishment:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2689568/

I thought the following particularly interesting:

Also this:

How come you missed this Colin?

"....inflicted the same punishment on those guilty of adultery and also those guilty of having favoured prostitution,"

Now there's a thought I don't remember being voiced before.

Good find Bridewell.

Regards, Jon S.

[Bridewell]

How come you missed this Colin?

I think I skim-read it. Silly really.

[curious]

I think I skim-read it. Silly really.

Another thought that I don't remember seeing in the article, but which is mentioned often on Casebook is the possibility of Eddowes sticking her nose in business where it did not belong.

I don't recall seeing that in the article. Did either of you?

curious

[Bridewell]

Another thought that I don't remember seeing in the article, but which is mentioned often on Casebook is the possibility of Eddowes sticking her nose in business where it did not belong.

I don't recall seeing that in the article. Did either of you?

curious

I didn't, but then I missed the prostitution bit!

[curious]

I didn't, but then I missed the prostitution bit!

Well, I saw the prostitution bit and was impressed.

However, I read that maybe as more of a political backing of prostitution than engaging in the activity.

Some of the nose chopping seemed to be for those in charge, not the common people -- except the adultery part.

[bolo]

Hi Bridewell, all,

Kate's killer worked in a hurry and mainly targetted the lower parts of her body. In my opinion, mosts of the facial mutilations (including the V-shaped cuts) were the result of a botched attempt at removing her nose which he stopped halfway through to get on with the main program - abdominal mutilation and organ removal.

Of course the cutting of the nose may have meant something to the killer but I don't think that it was as significant to him as the throat cuts or mutilations of the lower parts. That's why I see no "message" behind it.

Regards,

Boris

[Errata]

There are two reasons to cut off the nose. A: it sticks out. No really. Because it sticks out. The second is because cutting off a persons nose is the single most disfiguring thing that can be done. Not a bit subtle.

[Damaso Marte]

It's commonly said on casebook that whoever killed Nichols and Chapman attempted to remove the head.

Suppose you've tried this twice and have figured out that it's hard to decapitate with a knife (at least with your skills, or your knife). Do you continue this fool's errand, or do you try to cut off something else next time?

You could draw a thread between attempting to cut off heads, then attempting to cut off a nose, then successfully cutting off some breasts...

[lynn cates]

nose trouble

Hello Colin. Might have a go at this.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Why? Heaven only nose.

c.d.

[Bridewell]

Hello Colin. Might have a go at this.

Cheers.
LC

Interesting article, Lynn. Nark & snout are both terms used to describe informers - and both have nasal origins. If Kelly was an informer, who was she informing for and what about?

Speculation Alert!:

She supposedly claimed to know the identity of the Ripper, ended up at Bishopsgate Police Station and was dead within 45 minutes of her release. If her death were in some way related to that claim, it would have to mean, either that she actually did know something, or that the killer believed that she might and was unable to take that risk. It would also mean that he had somehow become aware of the claim.

[curious]

Interesting article, Lynn. Nark & snout are both terms used to describe informers - and both have nasal origins. If Kelly was an informer, who was she informing for and what about?

Speculation Alert!:

She supposedly claimed to know the identity of the Ripper, ended up at Bishopsgate Police Station and was dead within 45 minutes of her release. If her death were in some way related to that claim, it would have to mean, either that she actually did know something, or that the killer believed that she might and was unable to take that risk. It would also mean that he had somehow become aware of the claim.

Might it also mean that someone at Bishopsgate informed the assassin and had some control over when she was released?

[Cogidubnus]

Not necessarily Velma...it was pretty well known that drunks were released as soon as they'd sobered up...

What I do find interesting in this line of speculation is that Kate was skint...now leaving aside the dubious tale of visiting her daughter, that afternoon somebody for sure plied her with multiple drinks to get her into that sort of state...this surely wasn't just a large measure of gin, indicating a client perhaps...this was more in the nature of a prolonged drinking session leaving her totally rat-arsed...

So who bought her the drinks? And in what expectation?

And in the light of the questions thus raised, her death within 45 minutes of her release begins to look even more dodgy...and perhaps even more connected to either her Ripper theories or maybe knowledge of some other wrongdoing...

I know Lynn thinks along these lines...and it's certainly a line of reasoning I find difficult to simply dismiss

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

information please

Hello Colin. Thanks.

Was she an informer OR was she expected to become one?

As for the Mile End Casual Ward theory, I cannot buy it.

Cheers.
LC