Why Mutilate The Nose Specifically?

[Observer]

John Kelly and Catherine Eddowes were indeed up against it.

Q: Why pawn your boots, and go bare footed with winter fast approaching when the woman you are living with has a valuable cigarette case in her possesion?

Answer: It was not a valuable cigarette case. In fact the reverse is probably the case (pun intended) and the killer quickly realised this, and discarded it.

[lynn cates]

speculation

Hello Velma. Thanks.

I believe she and John came back when others did. I think they were up against it. You do what you must. Perhaps their work was not savoury? Leverage?

Q: Why were Kate's effects rifled and a valuable cigarette case left behind? (Was robbery the motive?)

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello Velma. Thanks. Too much time. I think she was really drunk--not pretending. Don't think she was part of a decoy operation.

Cheers.
LC

Thanks Lynn,

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts, if you are interested in sharing.

Velma

[lynn cates]

time

Hello Velma. Thanks. Too much time. I think she was really drunk--not pretending. Don't think she was part of a decoy operation.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello (again) Velma. Thanks.

The decoy scenario has this possible flaw. Why wait over 4 hours to pull it off?

Cheers.
LC

Well, Lynn, Let's see:

First she had to report to someone. How much work/time would it have taken for a drunk prostitute to get the attention of someone up the chain? Unless, of course, she was already known there.

Then, they had to consider the possibilities, then come up with the plan and get things/people in place?

Would 4 hours have been enough time?

Velma

[lynn cates]

Master the possibilities.

Hello Velma. Thanks. Well, all things are possible.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

points

Hello (yet again) Velma. Thanks.

"your answers raise more questions."

Always good to ask those.

"You don't believe he killed before or after that night . . . so why Kate?"

He wanted her dead.

"If not about him, no identifying a killer to the police, then."

Right. A killer had nothing to do with it.

"So, if not about him, about whom or what?"

I may have been misunderstood here. Forgive me if not clear. If we continue the mere speculation, then what if Kate had something on her killer?

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello Velma. Thanks.

"How would it have been possible for him to know Watkins beat and especially that he was working in reverse that night?"

Well, make a list of the possible ways.

Cheers.
LC

Thanks, Lynn,
But I was asking for what you see as possibilities.

Velma

[lynn cates]

delay

Hello (again) Velma. Thanks.

The decoy scenario has this possible flaw. Why wait over 4 hours to pull it off?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Let me count the ways.

Hello Velma. Thanks.

"How would it have been possible for him to know Watkins beat and especially that he was working in reverse that night?"

Well, make a list of the possible ways.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

"did she think he was the killer but that she could handle him and was perhaps trying to blackmail him?"

I don't think he killed before or after that night.

"Did he need to find out if she had said anything to the policemen?"

About him? No.

Cheers.
LC

Hi, Lynn,
Thanks, but your answers raise more questions.

You don't believe he killed before or after that night . . . so why Kate?

If not about him, no identifying a killer to the police, then.

So, if not about him, about whom or what?

thanks,

Velma

[curious]

Eddowes may well have suspected that this individual, may have been the killer, and informed the police [ maybe whilst in custody]

This may be wild, but I've long suspected that Eddowes being so extremely drunk was a ruse to land her in jail so she could inform someone about something.

Once done, she was able to be released early because she wasn't really drunk -- or at least that drunk. Or she was released early because she was indeed acting as a decoy and the officers messed up in a major way.

OR the news of her being there, informing, was rushed to someone on the other side . . . and this would account for the nose being chopped off.

curious

[curious]

[QUOTE=lynn cates;251331

Speculative, of course. However, I think he was intimately familiar with Watkins's beat--as also that he was working in reverse that night.

Cheers.
LC[/QUOTE]

Hi, Lynn,
Love educated speculation.

How would it have been possible for him to know Watkins beat and especially that he was working in reverse that night?

Thanks,

Velma

[lynn cates]

my problems

Hello Richard. Thanks.

Very well. Here are my problems.

1. The story about her coming back for the reward money is apocryphal. It was about a week after the fact and never corroborated.

2. According to John's "Echo" interview, he and Kate had come back from Kent well before the stated date. That would make sense as most Londoners came back about the first week of September due to poor harvest.

3. If Kate knew the killer, why is she waiting around and not down at Bishopsgate singing like a bird?

Cheers.
LC

[richardnunweek]

Hi Lynn,
''I have come back to claim the reward money ,I think I know him''
Eddowes left to go hop picking almost the same time as the death of Nichols, and was away until shortly before she was killed, for her to state such , she may have have suspected someone who was ripe in the Aldgate area , who had a reputation in stalking prostitutes.
If somewhere along the line , murderous impulses arrived within him, it is not inconceivable that he ventured away from his hunting ground to seek more solo victims, as the prostitutes church area would be too active..
Eddowes may well have suspected that this individual, may have been the killer, and informed the police [ maybe whilst in custody] and she could have used herself as a decoy, to pinpoint this character, saying something like''If you see me with a man , and I place my hand on his chest, that's him''.
But the whole situation went terribly wrong.
I always in the back of my mind believed the police officer in the seaside home was the person who because of a error , cost Eddowes her life, and it prayed on his mind greatly, but he had seen poor Kate stop to talk to a man, but had lost them as they stood at the entrance to Church passage, and frantically asked Bleinkensop[?] ''Have you seen a man and woman pass?''
This all sounds far fetched , but it is known that the press were held back in the mitre square event, more tight lipped then before..which would not be surprising if my scenario happened.
Regards Richard.