Kate's Apron

[JeffHamm]

Not if she had come to the end of her monthly cycle there would be no need to replace it, and modern day medical evidence tells us that women who were malnourished did not have heavy periods hence the blood spotting found on the GS piece

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

ha ha ha! I've been wondering how long it would take for you to come up with "she stopped." That's precious. So, to explain why there's no evidence at all for her mensturating in the first place, you decide she stopped. Just like that, stopped. At one point she's menstruating enough to deposit enough blood on the napkin that the doctors thought a bloody hand or knife was wiped on it, but no, she just stopped immediately.

Thank you Trevor, you've made my day.

- Jeff

[Herlock Sholmes]

Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
There would be no need to mention any piece missing because Brown was present when the body was stripped and the list made up, so the list tells us that at that time she was not found to be wearing an apron, or the remnants of an apron but simply in possession of one old piece of white apron.

Jeff Hamm
An opinion you hold, for reasons never adequately explained, but an opinion nonetheless. Opinions can be countered with opinions, and mine is of course they would mention a missing piece if there had been on. Now there is doubt about your claim, so your claim is unsafe

.......

My response is slightly different in tone to Jeff’s.......that’s utter drivel Trevor. The police considered the GS piece important so why not another piece out there somewhere? For all they knew another piece might have been lying next to another grafitto somewhere. At the very least it might have given the police a pointer at to his escape route and possibly where he came from. If Brown and the Police had seen that there was a piece missing they’d have mentioned it. But they didn’t......because there wasn’t.

[Trevor Marriott]

ha ha ha! I've been wondering how long it would take for you to come up with "she stopped." That's precious. So, to explain why there's no evidence at all for her mensturating in the first place, you decide she stopped. Just like that, stopped. At one point she's menstruating enough to deposit enough blood on the napkin that the doctors thought a bloody hand or knife was wiped on it, but no, she just stopped immediately.

Thank you Trevor, you've made my day.

- Jeff

and you have made my day by showing your ignorance yet again

You insult me, do you think i am like you and just sit and dream things up in an attemot to prop up the old theory because I dont, thorough research has been conducted into many aspects of this apron issue before they are put into print. A modern day gyenecolgist has provide an opinion on this issue and I have to accept that opinion its a shame you dont

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Trevor Marriott]

Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
There would be no need to mention any piece missing because Brown was present when the body was stripped and the list made up, so the list tells us that at that time she was not found to be wearing an apron, or the remnants of an apron but simply in possession of one old piece of white apron.

Jeff Hamm
An opinion you hold, for reasons never adequately explained, but an opinion nonetheless. Opinions can be countered with opinions, and mine is of course they would mention a missing piece if there had been on. Now there is doubt about your claim, so your claim is unsafe

.......

My response is slightly different in tone to Jeff’s.......that’s utter drivel Trevor. The police considered the GS piece important so why not another piece out there somewhere? For all they knew another piece might have been lying next to another grafitto somewhere. At the very least it might have given the police a pointer at to his escape route and possibly where he came from. If Brown and the Police had seen that there was a piece missing they’d have mentioned it. But they didn’t......because there wasn’t.

You are just scratching around for any old excuse change the record its pathetic suddenly a third piece of apron is brought into the mystery what next Nelson getting his eye back

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Herlock Sholmes]

.
Now I would argue that the Gs piece was nowhere near as big as that, if it had been that big Long could not have failed to miss it nor could Halse when they passed by the first time

Where do you get this kind of ‘logic’ from? It’s completely self-serving. An apron is made from material which can be bunched up. We can’t know how ‘large’ it was when Long found it.

I can’t believe that I’m having to explain this.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The argument then would be why would he need to take it with him, and why travel the distance he traveled before discarding it? The organs were certainly not taken away in it, and for those who say he took it to wipe his hands or his knife on, that argument can be rebutted by saying he could have wiped his knife or his hands on her clothing before leaving.

And I also concur with you in that the apron became important for the two separate police forces, to first prove the connection between The Gs piece and the victim and to show which way the killer went, murder in City police area, Apron found in Met area. that's is why the Met commissioner was concerned about how it could have got to GS and the indication that the killer lived in the Met area.

I fully agree that this argument about was she or was she not wearing an apron has been blown up beyond all proportions simply by those who are so blinkered that they cannot see the flaws in the testimony which they seek to rely on to prop up the old accepted theory. I have wasted a week of my life which I am not going to get back arguing back and forth on this topic

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

You wasted a week of your life coming up with this non-starter of a theory. You’re the one with the theory. You’re the one that’s blinkered. You’re the one that’s defended a thoroughly discredited theory by blatant goalpost moving, cherrypicking of evidence, making things up, applying rules to others and not to yourself and shoehorning. 5 years time, 10 years time, 20 years time this theory will gain no traction.

[Herlock Sholmes]

You are just scratching around for any old excuse change the record its pathetic suddenly a third piece of apron is brought into the mystery what next Nelson getting his eye back

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Did you do maths when you were at school Trevor?

You have been saying over and over that the apron was incomplete when it was matched up.

1 piece with the body - 1 piece in GS = an incomplete apron

Therefore, according to you, there MUST have been a piece missing.

How hard can this be?

In the next enthralling episode Herlock will explain where babies come from and why the moon isn’t really made from cheese

[Trevor Marriott]

Did you do maths when you were at school Trevor?

You have been saying over and over that the apron was incomplete when it was matched up.

1 piece with the body - 1 piece in GS = an incomplete apron

Therefore, according to you, there MUST have been a piece missing.

How hard can this be?

In the next enthralling episode Herlock will explain where babies come from and why the moon isn’t really made from cheese

Are you in Lal la land or what? how do i refer to a third piece missing there were only ever two pieces the GS piece and the mortuary piece, it was not me that suggested that the rest of the apron was a mysterious third piece that no one knew anything about

The two pieces when matched did not make up a full apron

You and others are so desperate now you cant even remember what you have said, give up now while you still have some semblance of normality to rely on. You are just embarrassing yourself.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Herlock Sholmes]

Are you in Lal la land or what? how do i refer to a third piece missing there were only ever two pieces the GS piece and the mortuary piece, it was not me that suggested that the rest of the apron was a mysterious third piece that no one knew anything about

The two pieces when matched did not make up a full apron

You and others are so desperate now you cant even remember what you have said, give up now while you still have some semblance of normality to rely on. You are just embarrassing yourself.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Im really struggling here. Can anyone understand what Trevor is doing here? It’s beyond bizarre?!!

Trevor, I’ve emboldened your words above. Please read them. Unless someone has hacked your Casebook account you must surely concede that YOU wrote them?

So.....you are saying (as I said earlier) that the 2 pieces (one that came from the body and one that came from GS) DID NOT make up a full apron when they were matched together in the mortuary.

Please say that you accept this.

THEREFORE... if the 2 pieces didn’t make up a full apron (meaning...an apron without any parts being absent) then the apron MUST (again, according to you) have had a piece missing. Something cannot be said to have been incomplete and complete at the same time. I’ll put it another way.....you cannot get from 3 to 2 without taking 1 away. Or, less than a full apron is not a full apron. I don’t know how many ways that I can say this.

Please say that you accept this.

THEREFORE...as you have stated that it wasn’t a full apron (remember the emboldened part above Trevor) then you are stating that there was a piece missing.

And so......if there was a piece missing (and just in case you’d forgotten Trevor - remember the emboldened bit above) we have to ask why the hell no one mentioned it.....ever? And following on from that, as we know that the Police felt that the GS piece was of importance, why did they not look for this missing piece? a) for all they knew it might have been left near to a second piece of graffito,and b) it might have given a further pointer to the killers escape route or even where he lived.


Any chance of a sensible answer?

Much appreciated.

[Trevor Marriott]

Im really struggling here. Can anyone understand what Trevor is doing here? It’s beyond bizarre?!!

Trevor, I’ve emboldened your words above. Please read them. Unless someone has hacked your Casebook account you must surely concede that YOU wrote them?

So.....you are saying (as I said earlier) that the 2 pieces (one that came from the body and one that came from GS) DID NOT make up a full apron when they were matched together in the mortuary.

Please say that you accept this.

THEREFORE... if the 2 pieces didn’t make up a full apron (meaning...an apron without any parts being absent) then the apron MUST (again, according to you) have had a piece missing. Something cannot be said to have been incomplete and complete at the same time. I’ll put it another way.....you cannot get from 3 to 2 without taking 1 away. Or, less than a full apron is not a full apron. I don’t know how many ways that I can say this.

Please say that you accept this.

THEREFORE...as you have stated that it wasn’t a full apron (remember the emboldened part above Trevor) then you are stating that there was a piece missing.

And so......if there was a piece missing (and just in case you’d forgotten Trevor - remember the emboldened bit above) we have to ask why the hell no one mentioned it.....ever? And following on from that, as we know that the Police felt that the GS piece was of importance, why did they not look for this missing piece? a) for all they knew it might have been left near to a second piece of graffito,and b) it might have given a further pointer to the killers escape route or even where he lived.


Any chance of a sensible answer?

Much appreciated.

There was no missing piece to look for, why do you not understand that there was only ever two pieces, and those two pieces couldn't have made up a full apron so she must have been in possession at some time before her murder of 2 pieces of old white apron ,which may have come from an old apron that was cut up and maybe the 12 pieces of rag, were the leftovers from the old apron that was cut up.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Abby Normal]

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here

[Herlock Sholmes]

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here

Amazing isn’t it

[Wickerman]

Two can play that game, one a longer version than the other, both attached at waist, could either of these failed to have not been noticed when the body was stripped and the list made up?

Oh brother, do you need an education...... those you posted are worn in-house by maids.
There are lots of photographs from the late 19th century showing the full length apron.

[Herlock Sholmes]

There was no missing piece to look for, why do you not understand that there was only ever two pieces, and those two pieces couldn't have made up a full apron so she must have been in possession at some time before her murder of 2 pieces of old white apron ,which may have come from an old apron that was cut up and maybe the 12 pieces of rag, were the leftovers from the old apron that was cut up.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Please stop this Trevor. I’m sorry to say it but you’re just not posting honestly here.

You keep saying that the 2 pieces didn’t make up a full apron!!

IF IT WASN'T A FULL APRON THEN THAT MEANS THAT THERE WAS A PIECE MISSING!!!

It doesn’t matter that you might suggest that it was never a full apron because the Police couldn’t have known that.

Why are you obfuscating on this very obvious point?

So if there was a piece missing - AND ITS YOU THAT IS SUGGESTING IT TREVOR AND NO ONE ELSE - why didn’t anyone mention it and why didn’t the police make any effort to try and find it?

Im just wondering how long you can keep the deceit up?

[Wickerman]

....Looking at Wicks drawing the way the apron is depicted and cut is that the killer must have taken not a portion but half and that is a large piece to take to wipe his hands or his knife on especially when he could have done both on her clothes, and I yet again go back to how her clothes were up above her waist when the body was found and other items of her clothing would have been more accessible than an apron which would have been the most difficult to locate and cut.

I used known references for that sketch, one source described the remaining piece with the string as 'triangular', and two other sources gave an estimate of the size of the G.S. piece.

We happen to have one account of a statement by Detective Sergeant Halse:

'When I saw the dead woman at the mortuary I noticed that a piece of her apron was missing. About half of it. It had been cut with a clean cut. When I got back to Mitre Square I heard that a piece of apron had been found in Goulston Street. I went there with Detective Hunt to the spot where the apron had been discovered. There I saw some chalk writing on the wall. I stayed there and I sent Hunt to find Mr McWilliam.'
- (Jones & Lloyd, The Ripper File - pg 126)

Also, Sir Henry Smith, though heavily critisized for being inaccurate in some statements, was at least known to be present for this report:

'By this time the stretcher had arrived, and when we got the body to the mortuary, the first discovery we made was that about one-half of the apron was missing. It had been severed by a clean cut'.
- (Sir Henry Smith, From Constable to Commissioner - pg 152)

We can only use what we have, and the consensus appears to be the G.S. piece was "about half" of the apron.

Correction: the apron piece was described as "a corner", not "triangular" - though one may be taken for the other.