Eddowes in Kent

[Jeff Leahy]

Yes interesting Sara

I have know idea what sort of traffic these roads had or what length journeys could be made by cart.

Its always puzzled me why Kate and Kelly went to Maidstone after Hunton given they had earned no money and London is in the opposite direction. Perhaps they simply tumbed a lift.

I plan to chase the Hunton historian in the New Year.

I gather that there was a work house at Cox Heath. Also that Hunton was a very tight nit community and not a major destination for Hop Pickers at that time. He had also discovered one person with links to teh Eastend.

Catch you all later

Pirate

[ianincleveland]

http://members.lycos.co.uk/DerekBright/page3.htm

This one seems to suggest the hop picking ended at the latest first week in October,and thats on a good year so that would suggest Eddowes and Kelly left early as the season was poor

[ianincleveland]

When I was young - in the 60s - I hitchhiked around places like Greece and Spain which were still very primitive peasant societies then, outside the cities. We would often walk part of the way and be picked up for a few miles by farmers with carts - even little scooter-powered carts, but also donkey or horse carts. Or sometimes guys with pick-ups would stop and pick up anyone walking or hitching. So few people had transport, it was normal to help those who didn't

I wouldn't be surprised if walkers weren't regularly picked up in Victorian times and carried on a few miles by eg farmers on their way home from market with empty carts etc; esp so on the 'hop routes' between Kent and London

Ive done casual agricultural work back in the 80s, and i worked with quite a few Romanies.Now maybe john and Catherine got some lifts on a Romany wagon.

[Lechmere]

This is a map of Hunton parish. A small portion of the original parish was incorporated into Coxheath in 1964. The parish boundary is the blue dotted line.

I located what was the pub – the Old Bull in what was a sub hamlet called Hunton Street and is now East Street. It is now a house.

In the 19th century Hunton covered 2,075 acres. The population rose from 810 in 1851, to 934 in 1891. But fell back to 780 by 1921. In 2007 it was 700 and it now comprises 800 hectares (1,977 acres). I would expect that virtually every substantial building from 1888 is still there.

For poor relief Hunton parish was part of the Maidstone Union. The Maidstone Union workhouse was in Coxheath. It is no longer there but is marked by the purple W on the map.
Apparently the number of inmates at the workhouse would swell when there was not enough work to go around for the seasonal agricultural labourers.

A tithe map for Hunton is available for 1838 which details the areas under hop cultivation. I haven’t seen the map but there is an accompanying registry available on line. While hop fields certainly feature, the land usage is very varied. There were also quite a large number of hop farmers.

http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Maps/HUN/02.htm

The following were charged an extra tithe per acre for growing hops (as hops were such a profitable crop):
William Gilbert Jnr, William Mercer Snr, William Mercer Jnr, John Miller, Thomas Milles, John Ranger, John Martin, Robert Duddy, Joseph Duddy, James G. Jeffery, Robert Golding, Richard Day Jnr, Mrs Elizabeth Day, John Day, James Cheesman, Edward Hollyman Bishop and Thomas Turner Alkin.

The above list compares interesting with the following mentioned in Kelly’s Directory for 1858 as gentry or people trading as farmers:
Richard Day, Thomas Milles (Burston House), James Cheeseman, Daniel Dann, George Day (also running the Bull Inn), William Gilbert (also a beer retailer so there must have been another beer shop), Robert Golding (of Stonewell House), William Hammond (also a miller), Thomas Martin, William Mercer and Alfred Skinner.
(There was also

I have no doubt that other directories and tithe records will be available for the period nearer to 1888 in the Kent History Centre in Maidstone.
For example here’s the 1882 Kelly’s for Hunton:

http://www.theweald.org/B10.asp?bookid=Kent82Hu

Besides two shop keepers, a butcher and a grocer (so produce could be bought locally), those listed specifically as hop growers are:
Frederick Manwaring (Stonewall), Thomas and William Martin, Alfred Skinner, George White, William Lee Hubble and William Whibley Hubble.
There is still continuity from 1858. There were other farmers as well.

There are still a bewildering number of oast houses in the parish which means that at some point a massive amount of hops were grown by a lot of different people. I will go back and locate them all on the map. Hops are still cultivated there but I would guess that even at the peak of Kentish Hop growing, other agricultural opportunities presented themselves.

The parish contains a lot of woodland. Surprisingly most is still coppiced and the trees showing signs of being harvested in this manner for some considerable time, with big stools. The ‘History and Topography Survey of the County of Kent’ (1798) mentions these coppiced woods.

Orchards take up a considerable acreage of the parish. They are marked on the map by the dotted areas. Some of the trees seem to be of a reasonable age.

Some parts of the parish are given over to sheep pasturage and other fields grow cabbages (or something similar).

John Kelly mentioned Coxheath and when he and Eddowes left for home they went via Maidstone. A couple they were with turned off to go to Chatham. My guess is that this other couple crossed the Medway at East Farleigh and then re-crossed it at Aylesford, passed Little Kits Coty House on the way up Blue Bell Hill and then walked on down to Chatham.

Bearing this in mind, my initial hunch is that Kelly and Eddowes worked in the area around Gennings Farm (just below the number 6 on the map). If they were regulars in this area, and bearing in mind that there were other local agricultural openings I think it is reasonable to suppose that they could have scratched a living for a few weeks even if there wasn’t much available in the way of hop picking.
Gennings was occupied by Henry Campbell Bannerman.

Incidentally the distance of Maidstone to London is 35 miles – not much further than the 30 miles from London to Rochester which was regarded as a day’s walk.

I have numbered where the following pictures were taken.

I wonder if Jeff Leahy ever made any more progress in his research into this matter? It would be interesting to find out.
Does anyone know how he can be contacted?

[Lechmere]

1. New growth coppice

2. Fruit trees

[Lechmere]

3. Mature coppice

4. Newly cut timber

[Lechmere]

5. Hunton cricket pitch

6. Oast House above Gennings

[Lechmere]

7. Stonewall Farm - an impressive yet decaying 15th century building.

8. The Old Bull – once the village pub.

[Lechmere]

9. Bishop's Oast

10. There be hops!

[Lechmere]

11. Buston Manor Farm

12. Which way?

[Lechmere]

13. A cabbage-like crop growing in a field

14. Pasture. There is quite a lot of roughish pasture being grazed by sheep on land which I presume is unsuited to cultivation.

[Wade Aznable]

a quick question...

Greetings everyone, and thanx for the very in-depth info about hop-picking, this thread is a real goldmine!
I have a related question: we know that Kate got back to London on september 27th, but I seem to be unable to find out when did she leave London to Kent. A-Z et al state "in september", but I was curious to know the exact day she left. Anyone knows?
Thank You in advance for Your time and attention,
W

[lynn cates]

London

Hello Wade. Great question. Many in London left for Kent in late August but were already coming back the first week of September.

Cheers.
LC

[Wade Aznable]

Thanx, Lynn! I kinda guessed that, because of what I've read about the not-very-good picking season, that year. The fact is, I think this could be an important date in figuring out several things about Kate.

Thanx again and best regards,
W

[lynn cates]

right

Hello Wade. Thanks. The pleasure is all mine.

I agree with your sentiments precisely.

Cheers.
LC