Eddowes in Kent

[Jeff Leahy]

Cathrine Work at one of four Hop farms.

Hi All

Yes I'm still on my mission. These things can take time.

I have at last found an expert on Hunton.

The numbers on the ordinance survey map now make more sense. The various plots of land belonged to one of four Hop farms.

1. The Falmouth Estate. Weston Manor. Hop Garden.

2. Jennings Estate.

3. Hunton Court. Behind the church. Belonged to Baniman.

4. Small estate on border Yalding. Cheivnie?

So most probably one of the first three, probably the Falmouth estate which was the largest. Luckily it would appear that some work was done by a historian called John Butcher. So it will be interesting to see what can be turned up. There is no local tradition of Cathrine Eddows as far as I can tell from this earliy stage.

However any information press reports about Cathrine Hop picking please let me know so that I can double check.

I'm hoping to at least discover what happened to the crops that year..there may be photo's

Yours Jeff

[Observer]

Hi Jeff

I don't know whether hops thrive in wet Summers, but the Summer of 1888 was very damp to say the least.

all the best

Observer

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff

I don't know whether hops thrive in wet Summers, but the Summer of 1888 was very damp to say the least.

all the best

Observer

Yeah the puzzle is how did they come by the money for the boots? Was there No work at all? or did they make a little.

If I can find the crop records I might be able to give you a more accurate picture..

Narrowing it down to four sets should help..you never know perhaps theres a record of her name somewhere?

Yours Jeff

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

I'm not surprised Eddowes and Kelly didn't make any money at hopping.

ECHO—5th September 1888

BAD LUCK FOR HOP-PICKERS

"The unfortunate people who have gone hop-picking this year seem to have had a decided poor time of it. Many who went to the gardens in hope are walking back in despair, having got nothing to do. One lad who, with three others, last week, walked to Maidstone informs us that he found the "home-dwellers" [indigenous hop-pickers] were able to accomplish all the work there was to do, and his opinion is that Maidstone is the best place for hops this year; but outsiders could get nothing to do.

"He went to Yalding [1.25 miles from where Kate Eddowes and John Kelly allegedly went hopping at Hunton], and there discovered that, for the most part, the hops were not considered worth picking. After trying many quarters for work, he started to walk back to London, having earned nothing during his stay in the hop district. His experience seems to be that of a great many more." [my brackets]

If the hopping prospects for outsiders in and around Maidstone were so poor at the start of September 1888, why would Eddowes and Kelly travel to Kent and stay in the area for almost a month?

Regards,

Simon

[Observer]

I believe the hop pickers were paid in tokens, they could then use the tokens to buy goods in a company shop. A friend of mine is a metal detectorist, he has a good few of those tokens. Have a surf of metal detecting club sites, there are bound to be photographs of their finds online. I'd guess there are some Kentish hop tokens to be viewed, you could get lucky and find tokens from the four addresses you give above.

all the best

Observer

[Observer]

Hi Simon

There was more than hops to be picked at that time of year, perhaps they gained employment picking other crops.

all the best

Observer

[Simon Wood]

Hi Observer,

Cherries, strawberries, blackcurrants, peas and beans were picked throughout the summer. Hops were picked in September. After the hops came top fruit, and finally potatoes before winter set in.

Regards,

Simon

[Sam Flynn]

Yeah the puzzle is how did they come by the money for the boots? Was there No work at all? or did they make a little.

They must have made at least some money, whether by hop-picking, casual labour or, as Observer has suggested and Simon has backed up, picking other crops. Don't forget Eddowes' portable "clothing repair-kit", either - she might well have put it to good use to earn a few pennies on occasion.

[Jeff Leahy]

I believe the hop pickers were paid in tokens, they could then use the tokens to buy goods in a company shop. A friend of mine is a metal detectorist, he has a good few of those tokens. Have a surf of metal detecting club sites, there are bound to be photographs of their finds online. I'd guess there are some Kentish hop tokens to be viewed, you could get lucky and find tokens from the four addresses you give above.

all the best

Observer

Hi Observer

If you check the first link on this thread you will discover a token poster by Simon. E Scott.

My original mission was to try and track down Scotts Farm.

I'm hop ping (excuse pun) that my Hunton expert will be able to piece some of these bits together.

Yalding and Hunton are actually joined together, and the last Hop Farm i mentioned crossed between the two.

Thanks for your Echo 5th Sept..simon

Do you know if Eddows murder was ever reported in local press for Maidstone /Hunton?

Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

PS how do you know they were in kent a month..I've not heard that before

Jeff

[Observer]

Hi Jeff

Just had a look at the Scott token. There are 18 examples of 19th Century hop tokens for sale om ebay at the moment. Hi Simon hence the old English phrase, "Tattie pickers waltz", to roam about aimlessly.

all the best

Observer

[Sam Flynn]

PS how do you know they were in kent a month.

That comes from the inquest testimony of Frederick Wilkinson, Kelly and Eddowes' regular lodging-house keeper, to the effect that he had seen the couple about five or six weeks previously "before they went hopping", and on their return (he saw them again at the lodging-house two days before Eddowes' murder).

[Jeff Leahy]

That comes from the inquest testimony of Frederick Wilkinson, Kelly and Eddowes' regular lodging-house keeper, to the effect that he had seen the couple about five or six weeks previously "before they went hopping", and on their return (he saw them again at the lodging-house two days before Eddowes' murder).

Well blow me what where they doin' in kent all that time?

Is it possible their journey took longer?

How were they surviving?

I have a million and one questions to give to David tomorrow, lets hope he can give a more accurate picture of life in Hunton August/September 1888.

Cheers Sam

Jeff

[Sam Flynn]

Well blow me what where they doin' in kent all that time?

Hopping for the best

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jeff,

Here's part of a local newspaper piece on Eddowes.

The Kent and Sussex Courier, 12th October 1888—

"On making inquiries locally we find that it was the custom of the woman Eddowes to visit Kent as a hopper every summer, and this year she was employed in some hop-gardens in the vicinity of Maidstone.

"She was accompanied by a man named Kelly, a common lodging-house keeper, for whose wife she passed.

"While in Maidstone Kelly purchased a pair of boots from Mr Arthur Pash, of High-street, and the murdered woman bought a jacket at Mr Edmett's pawnbroker's shop near by. One of Mr Edmett's assistants distinctly remembers selling the jacket to a woman answering the description of Eddowes."

Regards,

Simon