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Jack's Escape from Mitre Square

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  • Yes Jeff, I agree with this, except for the entry to the Square through St. James passage. It would have been difficult to see around the square until they were at the narrow entry point into the square (where they may have been observed by anyone in the square), so entering through the wider Mitre Street side makes more sense (if they saw anyone walking around in the square, they could just continue walking up Mitre Street). More likely, to my way of thinking, is that Eddowes hooked up with the Ripper somewhere near Aldgate, then they were able to watch Watkins from behind.

    This by the way, completely invalidates my earlier preferred witness, Joseph Hyam Levy, and the suspect by association, Jacob Levey (sorry Tracy!), but what do I know?

    I'm looking for a newspaper report I read some time ago which outlined the City Police's theory of the events, with echoes of the Stephen White story (where it is Watkins, without naming him, who encountered a strange man emerging St. James Passage 7 minutes after he left Mitre Square prior to discovering the body

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    • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
      Yes Jeff, I agree with this, except for the entry to the Square through St. James passage. It would have been difficult to see around the square until they were at the narrow entry point into the square (where they may have been observed by anyone in the square), so entering through the wider Mitre Street side makes more sense (if they saw anyone walking around in the square, they could just continue walking up Mitre Street). More likely, to my way of thinking, is that Eddowes hooked up with the Ripper somewhere near Aldgate, then they were able to watch Watkins from behind.

      This by the way, completely invalidates my earlier preferred witness, Joseph Hyam Levy, and the suspect by association, Jacob Levey (sorry Tracy!), but what do I know?

      I'm looking for a newspaper report I read some time ago which outlined the City Police's theory of the events, with echoes of the Stephen White story (where it is Watkins, without naming him, who encountered a strange man emerging St. James Passage 7 minutes after he left Mitre Square prior to discovering the body
      Yah, I think st James is difficult too. Can't rule out following PC Watkins, just can't find anything to point there either. Hmmmm, after 7 minutes he should be half way around his beat, so well passes at James passage I would think.

      - Jeff

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      • Again, this is the City of London Police's theory. I'm merely repeating it in lieu of finding that press report. Watkins testified at the inquest of seeing nothing out of the ordinary on his round prior to discovering the body, so I don't know what happened or what the Stephen White story was based on, if anything. The news report said it was calculated (by whom?) that seven minutes would have elapsed between Watkins leaving the square to his stepping aside to let a strange man pass around him at the St. James passage to Mitre Square.

        Watkins may have briefly conversed with the firemen at the small station in the orange market, adding additional time to the alleged encounter.

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        • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post
          Again, this is the City of London Police's theory. I'm merely repeating it in lieu of finding that press report. Watkins testified at the inquest of seeing nothing out of the ordinary on his round prior to discovering the body, so I don't know what happened or what the Stephen White story was based on, if anything. The news report said it was calculated (by whom?) that seven minutes would have elapsed between Watkins leaving the square to his stepping aside to let a strange man pass around him at the St. James passage to Mitre Square.

          Watkins may have briefly conversed with the firemen at the small station in the orange market, adding additional time to the alleged encounter.
          Ah, that goes to show me about making assumptions. I measured off the distance from entering Mitre Square to exiting St. James Place (similar to the route posted above) and at the estimated patrol speed for Watkins it worked out to be 6 minutes and 24 seconds, and that's certainly close enough to consider 7 minutes a reasonable time. The other portions of his route are straighter, so they "look" longer relatively speaking, making me think he would be further along.

          Anyway, I get that this is a police theory of the day, which is fine. I can't state that all of the possible entrances and/or exits are definately off the books. I think the most evidence leans towards the CPC and Church Passage as the entrance, but want to stress that's not established to the point considering other options should be off the table. After that, we at least know there were people in St. James Place, but must also weigh the fact that Mitre Street is also entirely accessible.

          As for the escape route, I see north on Mitre Street most likely given the events occurring around 1:41-1:42 (PC Harvey's patrol and Morris' opening of the door). I tend to think he would want to flee in as direct a line away from Mitre Square as possible, hence continuing north, but that's my own thoughts guiding me and it's JtRs thoughts that are more important, but unknown. Perhaps St. James Place was more attractive to him because there were people there, so he would no longer stand out and can get to areas where being spotted is less conspicuous. However, I would think he risks having his bloody hands spotted, and he's carrying cloth, and organs, etc, so for the first while simply getting far away and not being seen doing so, would be his priority. I could very well be wrong, of course.

          - Jeff

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          • Hi All

            Do you think Jack used his knowledge of the smaller streets to get away, or used the larger ones, such as Aldgate to disappear into the people that were still up and about at that time of night.

            Jeff

            I'm tending to believe you that he headed towards Bury street and followed it north and then wiggled his way to Goulston Street, discarded the apron, wrote on the wall? and headed home?


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            "Seek the absence of the normal, and find the presence of the abnormal"

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            • Originally posted by JeffHamm View Post
              As for the escape route, I see north on Mitre Street most likely given the events occurring around 1:41-1:42 (PC Harvey's patrol and Morris' opening of the door). I tend to think he would want to flee in as direct a line away from Mitre Square as possible, hence continuing north, but that's my own thoughts guiding me and it's JtRs thoughts that are more important, but unknown. Perhaps St. James Place was more attractive to him because there were people there...
              If he took the escape route through St. James Passage, but didn't enter Mitre Square that way originally, he was likely unaware of the people in the Orange Market until he emerged on that side...then surprise, surprise! He wasn't likely to turn around and go back down through Mitre Square, so he chances it and runs into Watkins.

              Well, maybe. The CPC/entrance is also a strong possibility.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Juniper4576 View Post
                Hi All

                Do you think Jack used his knowledge of the smaller streets to get away, or used the larger ones, such as Aldgate to disappear into the people that were still up and about at that time of night.

                Jeff

                I'm tending to believe you that he headed towards Bury street and followed it north and then wiggled his way to Goulston Street, discarded the apron, wrote on the wall? and headed home?


                Click image for larger version

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Views:	105
Size:	112.2 KB
ID:	751416

                Hi Juniper4576,

                I suspect he had local knowledge. Most serial killers wander around a lot and tend to know the area so I see no reason to suspect the to differ.

                It wouldn't take long to get to Houston, and PC long is sure the apron wasn't there at 2:20, so the may have gone elsewhere first

                - Jeff

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JeffHamm View Post

                  Hi Juniper4576,

                  I suspect he had local knowledge. Most serial killers wander around a lot and tend to know the area so I see no reason to suspect the to differ.

                  It wouldn't take long to get to Houston, and PC long is sure the apron wasn't there at 2:20, so the may have gone elsewhere first

                  - Jeff
                  Via somewhere where his 'trophies' were delivered to?
                  (That were wrapped in the piece of apron perhaps)

                  Is there any truth in the blood in the public sink? Thee name of the place escapes me at the moment?
                  "Seek the absence of the normal, and find the presence of the abnormal"

                  Comment


                  • Dorset Street.
                    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                      Dorset Street.
                      Thanks DJA

                      And around there is where I believe he lived.

                      Looking at the map there alot of places that pop up near there: Flower and Dean Street, Thrawl Street, and even Fashion Street as first mentioned by Kate
                      "Seek the absence of the normal, and find the presence of the abnormal"

                      Comment


                      • He lived at Sevenoaks,Kent and kept a bolt hole in London,most likely 6 Mitre Street.
                        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                          He lived at Sevenoaks,Kent and kept a bolt hole in London,most likely 6 Mitre Street.
                          This, with Henry, who is your suspect and motive?

                          I am intrigued to know different peoples theories
                          "Seek the absence of the normal, and find the presence of the abnormal"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post

                            If he took the escape route through St. James Passage, but didn't enter Mitre Square that way originally, he was likely unaware of the people in the Orange Market until he emerged on that side...then surprise, surprise! He wasn't likely to turn around and go back down through Mitre Square, so he chances it and runs into Watkins.

                            Well, maybe. The CPC/entrance is also a strong possibility.
                            Yah, but to head via St James after PC Harvey has patrolled church passage is to head sort of towards him, and to by pass the closer exit at mitre street. Can't completely rule it out, but it does feel a bit wrong to me. Just my view of course.

                            - Jeff

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Juniper4576 View Post

                              This, with Henry, who is your suspect and motive?

                              I am intrigued to know different peoples theories
                              Henry Gawen Sutton.

                              Blackmail by the Five.
                              My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Juniper4576 View Post

                                Via somewhere where his 'trophies' were delivered to?
                                (That were wrapped in the piece of apron perhaps)

                                Is there any truth in the blood in the public sink? Thee name of the place escapes me at the moment?
                                No, I think the blood in the sink is just a myth.

                                - Jeff

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