The Apron Again

[Simon Wood]

Thanks Monty,

It's odd that the question was never asked, nor the suggestion made.

Regards,

Simon

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello Mac. Well, I can see cutting it--sort of--although just wiping is simpler. I suppose you must cut a piece in order to get between the fingers.

But why carry it all the way to Goulston st?

Cheers.
LC

Would he be thinking that, Lynn? I must cut a piece of apron because it's the only way I can get to the fingers?

[lynn cates]

thrill

Hello Mac. But again, how are we certain it was for a thrill--at least in all five cases?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

search

Hello Maria. That would work well PROVIDED we can account for the missing time. A local hideout? That were well, but this is the sort of thing to be established by lease agreement records, etc.

Cheers.
LC

[Fleetwood Mac]

His actions show reasoning.

Monty

I think this would make for a good debate, Monty.

His actions displayed reasoning?

I would argue the opposite; his actions displayed instinct.

For a start, where's the reason in risking the noose for a quick thrill?

[mariab]

On the other hand, if he could be certain he would never be stopped, the story would gain plausibility. But how could someone know that?

Lynn, naturally he could not have been certain he would never be stopped. Unless he was a member of the WVC (insert wink).
I need to study the maps about this (you of all people knows I'm working on other things and don't have much time right now), but it could be as simple as the perp wanting to head to Wentworth or to another Jewish-inhabited building but having gotten a bad feeling/having gotten close to a policeman on his beat on his way there, so he makes himself scarce, runs home or to some safe place to clean up, stays a while inside, gets the chalk, goes out again, mingles with the people on the streets, picks up the latest 411 about the murders, then gets scarce and discreetly approaches the Wentworth Dwellings. We don't know it didn't take so long for him to get to Wentworth PRECISELY because he was avoiding witnesses. We don't even know if he did not visit an acquaintance living there as an alibi. This is all speculative, but well within the realm of possibility.
And by the by, Lynn, the apron piece would not have smelled conspicuously, esp. if well packed inside of the perp's pocket. Nothing to do with an entire cadaver, esp. a slain and disembowelled one.

To Phil Carter:
It's “illogical“ in our own, sane perception to run around with evidence in one's pockets after having committed 2 murders, but the perp who committed these murders clearly had other perceptions and priorities than us, plus it's safe to say he wasn't operating on all cylinders. His having committed murders inside of the yard at Hanbury Street and next to an open IWEC inside of Dutfields Yard and his having gone for another murder after having been interrupted with Stride constitute no less “illogicaly“ risky deeds than returning outside to deposit the apron piece with 2 police forces deployed about him.

[Monty]

Hi All,

When did the theory that the piece of apron was used to transport organs first appear?

As far as I can ascertain, nobody at the time speculated upon the reason for a piece of Eddowes' apron being cut off.

The only conclusion the press [and presumably the police] came to about the apron was that it showed "the murderer [had] made his way into Whitechapel."

Regards,

Simon

You ask a valid question Simon,

I don't think the transportation theory is contemporary.

Monty

[lynn cates]

smell

Hello Phil. Well, that's my take. I have been told many times about Chapman's opened cadaver sending forth a stench and potentially alerting the Richardson boy. Surely if one is carrying a bloody piece of apron, it could not be concealed for long.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello Lynn,

Did someone mention the safest of disguises qerchance?
Hehe

The fact is IF "Jack" had dumped the apron piece AFTER 2.20am, he had been in between the two murder sites with evidence upon him. And police running all about him..for at least 35mins! Now lf this Jack was as clever as he is portrayed, he has not shown it after the murder in his choice of esape method.

Far more logical to get out of that area asap. Without evidence on hės person that connects him to his deeds. It is illogical to do anything else imho

best wishes

Phil

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

When did the theory that the piece of apron was used to transport organs first appear?

As far as I can ascertain, nobody at the time speculated upon the reason for a piece of Eddowes' apron being cut off.

The only conclusion the press [and presumably the police] came to about the apron was that it showed "the murderer [had] made his way into Whitechapel."

Regards,

Simon

[lynn cates]

stoppage

Hello Maria. Yes, I know he lived there.

"the perp may have lacked a piece of chalk and may have needed to clean up after Eddowes' murder. In my interpretation, the idea about producing a graffito might have even materialized later, after his having reached his home to clean up. Obviously this is all conjecture, but it does make sense."

But what does NOT make sense is that he is walking into the teeth of a hub bub over 2 murders. What's more, he would be doing so with a piece of damning evidence.

On the other hand, if he could be certain he would never be stopped, the story would gain plausibility. But how could someone know that?

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Hello Maria. Indeed. And I would be delighted had Kate's assailant marched over there straightaway and deposited it. I would declare, "Case closed."

Lynn, I'm referring to IWEC member Israel Sunshine (known to have been arrested together with Diemshitz during the IWEC raid in 1889). Lynn, to state the obvious, the perp may have lacked a piece of chalk and may have needed to clean up after Eddowes' murder. In my interpretation, the idea about producing a graffito might have even materialized later, after his having reached his home to clean up. Obviously this is all conjecture, but it does make sense.
"Case closed“, eh? Have you ever considered joining the publishing business?

[lynn cates]

Kronos in a lapsed condition

Hello Abby.

"I think if he wanted to wipe hands/organs/knife he would have just done it at the crime scene and skeedadled.'"

Seems so to me too.

"But then again of course I tend to think he took the apron to help make a statement (the GSG)."

Very plausible. But the time lapse is not.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

suggestion

Hello Maria. Indeed. And I would be delighted had Kate's assailant marched over there straightaway and deposited it.

I would declare, "Case closed."


Cheers.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

That is a laugh. You truly are a genius investigator.

Whats happening on here suddenly so many now realising my talents I knew it would just be a matter of time.