The Apron Again

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE]

Hello Ruby. It's a fact of life for us old folks. But I have had a few female students who could not endure a 75 minute lecture without at least one visit.

It's maybe your lectures Lynn...

Sorry..I couldn't resist !

Seriously - you can't base a theory on pee ! Everyone pisses. It doesn't have a baring on our lives....does it ??? (tell me not !).

[Bridewell]

Perhaps

So isnt being spotted with blood and and traces of feacal matter suggesteive of it being between the legs of an un hygenic woman who may have been at the end of her monthly cycle. It should also be noted that these women who were malnourished etc did not have full blown periods.

I think you are missing the point here if she was alreday using the piece as a sanitary device and she needed to releive herslef in some way either en route from the police station or back towards the city then she could have easily after doing just that discarded it.

The apron was also describe as being wet it wasnt found in the open so the wet could have been urine from perhaps her pissing herslef whilst in custody as its not un common for drunken people to do just that.

Ypu have to accept that rags of this nature were used by women of that time as sanitary devices. Now before those people start jumping up and down saying she was in posession of 12 pieces of white cloth. One has to ask for what purpose did she have these I would suggest for some private eneterprise to sell so you are not going to destroy a possible means of income.
.

"So isnt being spotted with blood and and traces of feacal matter suggesteive of it being between the legs of an un hygenic woman who may have been at the end of her monthly cycle."

Perhaps, but more suggestive of it having been in the hands of a man who has just cut a 2' length from a woman's colon, in my view.

"I think you are missing the point here"

I'm not missing the point - just disagreeing with it.


"The apron was also describe as being wet it wasnt found in the open so the wet could have been urine from perhaps her pissing herslef whilst in custody as its not un common for drunken people to do just that. "

The apron had also been worn by a woman who had been out in the rain between 1am and 1.30am when the rain eased off. I might have been suspicious if the apron was dry, but wet seems entirely logical - rainwater.
If Kate was in the habit of using pieces of her own clothing as tampons and/or toilet wipe I would expect to see her apron disappear piecemeal. Here a large piece has gone in one go.

[lynn cates]

importance of . . .

Hello Ruby. Frankly, it dictates my travel patterns and even sleep patterns. Truth be told, I daresay it tells us--to some extent--Kate's comings and goings that night.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

The Maths

[QUOTE=Rubyretro;198783]

.

Bridewell..surely you have better things to do with your time than to spend it on this sort of maths (?....??). It depends on the person and the day...and the weather...(the cold ).

Not much time involved in that particular calculation!:

[Bridewell]

Blurred

The police officer said it looked new? I wonder how he was able to determine 2 hour old chalk from two day old chalk.

Swanson, in his written report, refers to it as "blurred chalk writing". This suggests, to me at least, either writing which was not recent, or writing which was written by someone left-handed, whose arm blurred what he had just written (a problem which my late, left-handed mother often complained about).

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE]

Not much time involved in that particular calculation!:

I'm warming to you Bridewell ..I just read your reply to Marriot. Very good.
I think that he must have had some revolting experiences with women..he is revolting me anyway. If he knew women, he would know that menstrual blood
is old womb lining, and at the end of the cycle , doesn't resemble fresh blood anyway.
a doctor would see that, I'm sure.

[Rubyretro]

Hello Ruby. Frankly, it dictates my travel patterns and even sleep patterns. Truth be told, I daresay it tells us--to some extent--Kate's comings and goings that night.

Cheers.
LC

No -you are pissing up the wrong tree, Lynn, if you think that Kate's bladder contents are a clue to anything. It's not important.

[Trevor Marriott]

"So isnt being spotted with blood and and traces of feacal matter suggesteive of it being between the legs of an un hygenic woman who may have been at the end of her monthly cycle."

Perhaps, but more suggestive of it having been in the hands of a man who has just cut a 2' length from a woman's colon, in my view.

"I think you are missing the point here"

I'm not missing the point - just disagreeing with it.


"The apron was also describe as being wet it wasnt found in the open so the wet could have been urine from perhaps her pissing herslef whilst in custody as its not un common for drunken people to do just that. "

The apron had also been worn by a woman who had been out in the rain between 1am and 1.30am when the rain eased off. I might have been suspicious if the apron was dry, but wet seems entirely logical - rainwater.
If Kate was in the habit of using pieces of her own clothing as tampons and/or toilet wipe I would expect to see her apron disappear piecemeal. Here a large piece has gone in one go.

The size is determined by the overall size of the apron it were a small apron then half would be relativley small. It it were a large full length apron half would the size of a towel.

Have you never heard of improvising in time of need.

So how come the rest of her clothes were not desribed as being soaking wet or was she still drunk that she couldnt walk but was crawling along on her stomach henve her apron being wet

If you are going to rejct this suggestion then please come back with a plausible explanation as to why the apron piece which was found is not decsribed as being consitent with carrying away the organs in it/wiping a bloody knife/ wiping bloody hands

[Trevor Marriott]

[QUOTE=Rubyretro;198795]

I'm warming to you Bridewell ..I just read your reply to Marriot. Very good.
I think that he must have had some revolting experiences with women..he is revolting me anyway. If he knew women, he would know that menstrual blood
is old womb lining, and at the end of the cycle , doesn't resemble fresh blood anyway.
a doctor would see that, I'm sure.

I am quoting from medical experts of which i suggest you are not one of.

Were the doctors bothered by the time they were trying to match it up what blood was on it had no doubt dried and the colour red somewhat faded. besides it was not heavily blood stained.

I challenge you as i did with Bridwell to come back with an answer as to why the apron piece as described is not consistent with all the reason put forward to suugest the killer deposited it

[Fleetwood Mac]

Trevor,

Didn't Dr Brown say the apron looked like it had been wiped with bloodied hands or/and knife?

[Rubyretro]

I am quoting from medical experts of which i suggest you are not one of.

I confess to not being a medical expert Trevor, but only a mere woman with
(too much) experience of menstrual blood. I suggest that you have rather less experience than me.

Were the doctors bothered by the time they were trying to match it up what blood was on it had no doubt dried and the colour red somewhat faded. besides it was not heavily blood stained.

They would see the difference. I am too shy to spell it out for you in public.

I challenge you as i did with Bridwell to come back with an answer as to why the apron piece as described is not consistent with all the reason put forward to suugest the killer deposited it

[/QUOTE]
"I fitted the piece of apron, which had a new piece of material on it (which had evidently been sewn on to the piece I have), the seams of the borders of the two actually corresponding. Some blood and apparently faecal matter was found on the portion that was found in Goulston Street" is what was said.

[lynn cates]

important

Hello Ruby. I daresay it was important to Kate. Ouch!

Cheers.
LC

[Monty]

Ruby,

Are you asking Trevor to experiment with half an apron piece an a female on her menstrual cycle?

Hmmmm

Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

At what time did Dr. Brown fit the missing piece of apron "which was spotted with blood to the remaining portion, which was still attached by the strings to the body"?

Eddowes was stripped upon her arrival at Golden Lane mortuary [3.15 - 3.30 am?], yet almost two hours later when Dr. Brown left the mortuary at 5.20 pm, Dr. Phillips, who had taken possession of the missing piece of apron at Leman Street police station, had yet to arrive [Lloyds Weekly News, 30th September].

Regards,

Simon

[Rubyretro]

Lynn -you are pretending to feel like Kate, but if I try and feel myself into Kate's shoes then I arrive at a different conclusion. Maybe neither of us can
'be' Kate ?

As much as I can empathise with the victims, being a vulnerable woman, it is more productive to focus on the mentality of the killer rather than the bladder contents of his poor victims ?