The Apron

[ChrisGeorge]

Just had a thought on this:

Let's say this apron is tied at the back.

He can't pull the apron up because it's tied at the back. And she's lying on her back, so he can't reach round and untie the bow.

So, he's left with two options: push her onto her front and untie it, or cut the apron, which would explain why such a big piece has been cut off. The latter would probably be quicker.

Once the apron is cut, although not planned, he may have grabbed it for future use.

Thoughts?

Hello Fleetwood Mac

Yes but you fling all the garments up, over her upper body, petticoats, dress, apron and everything, to display the abdomen for mutilation. You don't need to cut the apron to get to the abdomen. Take a look at the sketch of Eddowes as she looked lying in Mitre Square.

Chris

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello Fleetwood Mac

Yes but you fling all the garments up, over her upper body, petticoats, dress, apron and everything, to display the abdomen for mutilation. You don't need to cut the apron to get to the abdomen. Take a look at the sketch of Eddowes as she looked lying in Mitre Square.

Chris

The point I'm making, Chris, is that if the apron was tied at the back, he might not have been able to fling it up, and so needed to cut it.

[Steven Russell]

Spotted or covered?

I've just been through the Sourcebook looking up all references to the apron. One thing is clear: It is the portion found with Eddowes' body which shows "spots" of blood; the Goulston St. piece is much more heavily stained, Dr. Brown even stating, "... as if a hand or knife had been wiped", and PC Long, "... covered in blood".

Just mentioning this as a few people seem to think the spots were on the G. St. piece.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Monty]

I've just been through the Sourcebook looking up all references to the apron. One thing is clear: It is the portion found with Eddowes' body which shows "spots" of blood; the Goulston St. piece is much more heavily stained, Dr. Brown even stating, "... as if a hand or knife had been wiped", and PC Long, "... covered in blood".

Just mentioning this as a few people seem to think the spots were on the G. St. piece.

Best wishes,
Steve.

Yes Steve,

It amazes me how some dismiss the testimony of those who were at the scene.

Monty

[ChrisGeorge]

The point I'm making, Chris, is that if the apron was tied at the back, he might not have been able to fling it up, and so needed to cut it.

Of course he could fling it up if the apron began at her waist which it did. It would be flung up as I said over her upper body along with all her other lower garments.

Chris

[Fleetwood Mac]

Of course he could fling it up if the apron began at her waist which it did. It would be flung up as I said over her upper body along with all her other lower garments.

Chris

If the apron began at her waist? Is this mentioned in contemporary documents?

Are we not talking about an apron that goes round the neck and is tied at the waist?

[GregBaron]

Who's bleeding?

Hi all,

I believe someone suggested that Jtr himself was bleeding from the massacre. This makes some sense as organs or a knife wipe wouldn't cover an apron with blood but only spot or smear it.

This idea would also make writing graffiti less likely with presumably an injured hand.

Could also account for the missing time as he went somewhere to treat his wound.

Just some thoughts. Now rip them apart.


Greg

[Scott Nelson]

Well, he could have written the graffitti with his uninjured hand. Yes, that's probably it. The missing time element is when he was getting a bite to eat.

[niko]

I've just been through the Sourcebook looking up all references to the apron. One thing is clear: It is the portion found with Eddowes' body which shows "spots" of blood; the Goulston St. piece is much more heavily stained, Dr. Brown even stating, "... as if a hand or knife had been wiped", and PC Long, "... covered in blood".

Just mentioning this as a few people seem to think the spots were on the G. St. piece.

Best wishes,
Steve.

Hi Steve, I mentioned this before, the "spot's" of blood on the piece of apron found on Eddowes body. I belive that the blood "spot's" were caused by something dripping blood on to the apron, like what ?

(1) The removed organ's, "nah"

(2) The knife, "nah"

(3) A cut on Jack's hand, "nah impossible"

All the best, Agur.

niko

[GregBaron]

They cut me...

The missing time element is when he was getting a bite to eat.

Good one Scott. And yes, he would have to scoop his porridge with his off hand which is quite awkward.

This gets even better. Suppose when he was cutting down the abdomen he hits a button (someone else also suggested this) and the knife slipped and stabbed him in the hip or thigh. This angers him greatly. Before he bails, as he feels the blood running down his leg, he cuts the apron piece and stuffs it down his trousers to soak up the blood. When he nears his residence, he reaches down to grab and discard the apron so as not to take evidence into his bolt hole.

He blames the 3 Jewish guys who cost him a couple of valuable minutes which made him rush and cut himself. He pens the graffiti.

Brilliant.

Now either pc Long missed the apron originally or Jtr did step into a den somewhere to treat his wound.

I love it....



Greg

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Chris,

Why do you think the killer had time to wipe his hands in the square? Seeing as we have possible interventions for Watkins, Harvey and Morris.

Re cut or tear.

The inquest testimony is quite clear, it was cut. As the parts were matched and identified via a repair and matching its far easier to cut through a repair than tearing. I see no issue regarding cutting, that knife was sharp enough to cut through some pretty tough matter in Eddowes body.

Monty

Oh so now the killer can see perfectly in the dark so as to see a tear in an apron which was drawn up along with all the other clothes and cut along the tear.When is reality going to kick in. So many outlandish theories people are clinging to in the beleif that the killer took the organs.

[Monty]

Oh so now the killer can see perfectly in the dark so as to see a tear in an apron which was drawn up along with all the other clothes and cut along the tear.When is reality going to kick in. So many outlandish theories people are clinging to in the beleif that the killer took the organs.

Evidence, provided by those at the scene, supports that the lighting was adequate.

As for cutting along the tear, no one has stated that.

You should read more you bore rather that promote theory as fact.....and its I before e.

Monty

[Trevor Marriott]

Evidence, provided by those at the scene, supports that the lighting was adequate.

As for cutting along the tear, no one has stated that.

You should read more you bore rather that promote theory as fact.....and its I before e.

Monty

I think you ought to read and digest your own post first before running to correct my spelling especially the part where you mention cutting along the tear.

I think you need to go back to Specsavers and ask them to remove the rose tint from your spectacles.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if this was a half apron or a full apron?

[Monty]

Hi Chris,

Why do you think the killer had time to wipe his hands in the square? Seeing as we have possible interventions for Watkins, Harvey and Morris.

Re cut or tear.

The inquest testimony is quite clear, it was cut. As the parts were matched and identified via a repair and matching its far easier to cut through a repair than tearing. I see no issue regarding cutting, that knife was sharp enough to cut through some pretty tough matter in Eddowes body.

Monty

Here's the post, point out where I said he cut along the tear.

Then, when you cannot, state its yet another thing you got wrong.

Monty