The Apron

[curious]

If it's all about signature to verify CE, why doesn't he just sign the writing: "yours respectfully, the man who has just laid waste to the woman in the square"?

Perhaps because the killer, writer, whoever is so out there that he thought he was being perfectly clear and had no idea that his brain worked so differently from the majority of people's minds that he was completely incoherent.

Just recently, I received in the office a "press release" so garbled I could not make head nor tails of what the writer was attempting to say.

When I discussed it with some of the editors who knew the writer, they said that's just how this person's mind works -- completely out-of-sync with the majority. This person is just impossible to "follow" or figure out.

This recent contact has demonstrated to me that a basically normal person might have no way to understant JtR.

Just a perhaps,

curious

[Malcolm X]

So why did he not just send the apron piece with the portion of kidney then if the kidney is beleived to have come from Eddowes. Then all would have known it has come from the killer instead of dumping it in an archway some distance from the crime scene just hoping someone would find it, and amazingly link it to a murder

i've no idea only JTR knows.

but that is not the point, only JTR could have removed the piece of apron and only he could have left it there, now is it pure coincidence that he's left it too close to that graffiti by mistake, or did he see it there, or did he write it...

well, because of Stride earlier on and the jewish connection to Dutfields, my guess is he wrote it, but this graffiti was originally intended for the gates of Dutfields.... i say this because, i very much doubt he found the chalk lieing in the filthy wet streets, i think he had it on him when he left home, this means that the crafty sod had something special planed for that night.

what went wrong ?......he got fed up watching Stride hanging around Dutfields, he couldn't get her to walk away with him earlier on and there she was yet again, waiting outside Dutfields, ``not tonight love, some other night maybe``, but more importantly, he couldn't walk off and kill anyone else, whilst she was still there, because she could've still been there for another half an hour, so that woman was ruining his evening and driving him crazy, he was sick of the sight of her.

she therefore paid the ultimate price for his frustration, he rushed in, quickly killed her and shot off looking for another victim, chalk in pocket !

maybe......

[ChrisGeorge]

Perhaps because the killer, writer, whoever is so out there that he thought he was being perfectly clear and had no idea that his brain worked so differently from the majority of people's minds that he was completely incoherent.

Just recently, I received in the office a "press release" so garbled I could not make head nor tails of what the writer was attempting to say.

When I discussed it with some of the editors who knew the writer, they said that's just how this person's mind works -- completely out-of-sync with the majority. This person is just impossible to "follow" or figure out.

This recent contact has demonstrated to me that a basically normal person might have no way to understant JtR.

Just a perhaps,

curious

Hi curious

I believe you speak some truth. We probably don't have any conception of how the killer's mind worked. When we say "that's illogical" or "that doesn't make sense" we are not taking allowance of a type of mentality we can't really comprehend. There's the mindset of the killer but there's also the fact that the man was on the run and making quick decisions with an ongoing manhunt ramped up on the night of the Double Event because a hue and cry was on following the murder of Stride, shortly to be multiplied with the finding of the body of Eddowes.

Best regards

Chris

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi curious

I believe you speak some truth. We probably don't have any conception of how the killer's mind worked. When we say "that's illogical" or "that doesn't make sense" we are not taking allowance of a type of mentality we can't really comprehend. There's the mindset of the killer but there's also the fact that the man was on the run and making quick decisions with an ongoing manhunt ramped up on the night of the Double Event because a hue and cry was on following the murder of Stride, shortly to be multiplied with the finding of the body of Eddowes.

Best regards

Chris

On the run in a hurry yet he still apprently has time to stop and write the graffiti which as it stands has absolutley nothing to suggest it is connected to the murder or any of the murders. He dumps the apron piece not really knowing if it is going to be found or not.

Does anyone really belive that ?

Far more easier options open to him if he wanted to make it known the first being get the hell out of the immediate area not stop to write a cryptic message.Its easy to say we dont know the mind of the killer thats a cop out statement for those who want to belive in this theory.

[ChrisGeorge]

On the run in a hurry yet he still apprently has time to stop and write the graffiti which as it stands has absolutley nothing to suggest it is connected to the murder or any of the murders. He dumps the apron piece not really knowing if it is going to be found or not.

Does anyone really belive that ?

Far more easier options open to him if he wanted to make it known the first being get the hell out of the immediate area not stop to write a cryptic message.Its easy to say we dont know the mind of the killer thats a cop out statement for those who want to belive in this theory.

Hi Trevor

Maybe he wrote other inscriptions and dropped other clues but we don't know it because they were never found. Maybe he wrote a Ripper letter or two. Or maybe he didn't. Trevor, I would suggest that we are all struggling to understand a perplexing set of murders, yourself and myself included -- the "Great Victorian Mystery" as Christopher-Michael DiGrazia dubbed it years ago.

All the best

Chris

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor

Maybe he wrote other inscriptions and dropped other clues but we don't know it because they were never found. Maybe he wrote a Ripper letter or two. Or maybe he didn't. Trevor, I would suggest that we are all struggling to understand a perplexing set of murders, yourself and myself included -- the "Great Victorian Mystery" as Christopher-Michael DiGrazia dubbed it years ago.

All the best

Chris

Chris
There are endless possibilities but only several which are open to discussion and you are right the whole series of murders is perplexing and as a series you cannot discount Tabram, Coles or Mckenzie which many seem to want to ignore.

[mklhawley]

Trevor,

I can't believe I'm saying this, but your ideas are growing on me. The argument between you and Paul B goes to you.

You're still not on my Christmas list, though!

Sincerely,

Mike

[Fleetwood Mac]

he therefore doesn't really need to tell you that he's JTR, because it's obvious.

Except it isn't obvious.

Let's say the writing stated: "oranges and apples, 5 for a pound, theft will not be tolerated, get them here".

Would you claim the writing was Jack's work?

[Fleetwood Mac]

Perhaps because the killer, writer, whoever is so out there that he thought he was being perfectly clear and had no idea that his brain worked so differently from the majority of people's minds that he was completely incoherent.

Just recently, I received in the office a "press release" so garbled I could not make head nor tails of what the writer was attempting to say.

When I discussed it with some of the editors who knew the writer, they said that's just how this person's mind works -- completely out-of-sync with the majority. This person is just impossible to "follow" or figure out.

This recent contact has demonstrated to me that a basically normal person might have no way to understant JtR.

Just a perhaps,

curious

Perhaps Curious, it's a possibility.

How likely though?

How many serial killers leave a message that is open to debate in terms of intent?

I would imagine there is an exception out there, and I'm not well versed in every lunatic doing the rounds (hope Sally is reading this and is suitably impressed). But, I would bet a pound to a penny that it is not the rule.

Yours,
Israel Sunshine, formerly FM.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I've read some fascinating stuff on here, obviously people have put a lot of effort into putting some meat on the bones. It's a great board, with some sharp people; plenty of times I thought: "why didn't I think of that?"

But, I'm scratching my head thinking on how on earth can someone think that this is Jack attempting to deflect suspicion. It would have to be the most base attempt in hisory, a burrow owl could have done a better job. Seriously, can you think of any killer in history who has made such a pathetic attempt of deflecting responsibility?

The only way this writing is connected to the murder is this: it was written by a Jew; John/Wickerman was correct in that the writing should be taken as written (the Jews will not be blamed when they're innocent); it is a clear statement of intent (**** with us and we'll cause you problems). I don't go with this, but it's a much better bet than someone attempting to blame 'the Jews'.

And, for what purpose? What exactly would the writing have achieved? The police focus only on Jews? Are the police that stupid? (I suppose we have Wearside Jack).

[Wickerman]

Hi Wick,
Thanks for that. But actually, it's rather accepted now that Kelly's heart was taken away by her killer... I believe the cartel made it official a couple of years ago, but you should double-check that with Monty.

The Cartel?, actually I have not followed the posts where this has been brought up.
Are these the "Brotherhood of the Consensus", the "Casebook Starchamber", aka the retainers of "Conventional Ripperology"?
These must be the same "Illuminati" who wouldn't appreciate me bringing up the "grapes"?


(Metaphorically speaking)
You show me ten people who agree on anything here & I'll show you nine people who can't think for themselves!

I may have left the wrong impression, I was meaning Kelly's parts were located & identified before her body was taken to the mortuary, so no light-fingered Larry had the chance to pocket the heart, or anything else in her case.

Just to correct you I have not suggested a mortuary attendant I have suggested persons connected to the medical profession. A mortuary attendant would not have sufficient medical knowledge to have performed the removals.

Actually Trevor, I was just giving Tom an honest answer to an honest question. I wasn't infering support or critique for anyone's theories.
Sorry if you thought it was aimed at you, but it wasn't.

Regards, Jon S.

[Scott Nelson]

Hey Chris,

What's Mr. DiGrazia up to these days?

[Trevor Marriott]

The Cartel?, actually I have not followed the posts where this has been brought up.
Are these the "Brotherhood of the Consensus", the "Casebook Starchamber", aka the retainers of "Conventional Ripperology"?
These must be the same "Illuminati" who wouldn't appreciate me bringing up the "grapes"?


(Metaphorically speaking)
You show me ten people who agree on anything here & I'll show you nine people who can't think for themselves!

I may have left the wrong impression, I was meaning Kelly's parts were located & identified before her body was taken to the mortuary, so no light-fingered Larry had the chance to pocket the heart, or anything else in her case.



Actually Trevor, I was just giving Tom an honest answer to an honest question. I wasn't infering support or critique for anyone's theories.
Sorry if you thought it was aimed at you, but it wasn't.

Regards, Jon S.

I didnt think that at all it was an issue that i felt needed clarifying for obvious reasons.

[Trevor Marriott]

Trevor,

I can't believe I'm saying this, but your ideas are growing on me. The argument between you and Paul B goes to you.

You're still not on my Christmas list, though!

Sincerely,

Mike

Dont worry my birthday comes before xmas you can make amends

[Malcolm X]

Chris
There are endless possibilities but only several which are open to discussion and you are right the whole series of murders is perplexing and as a series you cannot discount Tabram, Coles or Mckenzie which many seem to want to ignore.

yes this is true, i definitely include Tabram and i dont know why she was removed from the main victims list, because she was definitely there 4 years ago, this could quite easily be JTR, or Pipeman/ BS .... Tabram could quite easily be a murder committed by a very inexperienced JTR, but it does look like someone else was with him, well maybe someone like Pipeman, who knows.