The Apron

[Phil Carter]

Hello FM,

According to Halse..

He arrived at Mitre Square a little after being made aware of the murder at one or two minutes to two.

According to Halse..

He went to Goulston Street via Middlesex Street and then Wentworth Street having stopped two men and questioned them.

According to Halse..

He was in Goulston Street at about 2-20am
He passed the spot where the apron piece was found at 2.20am

According to Halse..

He then returned to Mitre Square and THEN accompanierd Insdpector collard to the mortuary.

According to Halse..

I saw the deceased stripped and saw a piece of the apron was missing

I went back with Major Smith to Mitre Square when we went back ('back to Goulstone' deleted) I and Detective Hunt went to Leman Street Police station.

According to Halse..

I and Detective Hunt went to Goulston Street and the spot was pointed ouit where the apron was found... I remained there and sent with a view to having the writing photographed. Directions were given to having the writing photographed and during the time some of the Metropolitan Police said as it was Sunday morning it might cause a riot or an outbreak against the Jewsand decided to have it rubbed out and it wasd rubbed out. When Hunt returned an enquiry was madeat every tenement..."

All according to Halse.

kindly


Phil

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello Phil.

"So now we have two different people, Smith AND McWilliam, who compiled the official report, telling us the apron piece was NOT found at 2.55am. Also, that according to Smith, Halse SAW a light being shone."

Hard to deny. That seems to be the implication.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Smith doesn't say that all, nor is it implied.

[lynn cates]

implication

Hello Phil.

"So now we have two different people, Smith AND McWilliam, who compiled the official report, telling us the apron piece was NOT found at 2.55am. Also, that according to Smith, Halse SAW a light being shone."

Hard to deny. That seems to be the implication.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

geography

Hello Neil. Umm, I have a map of the area. One may trace the various routes that night--I have.

Given that Halse was a City chap and knew Mitre sq pretty well, why not go and check the empty buildings before another moment passes?

Cheers.
LC

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello FM,

According to Halse at the inquest he said.."I came through Goulston Street at about 2.20am and went back to ;itre Square and then accompanied Inspector Collard to the Mortuary"

from page 239 The Ultimate Sourcebook.

kindly

Phil

Hi Phil,

Yes and then returned to Mitre Square with Smith?

[lynn cates]

aha!

Hello Simon. Say, that makes the gravy thick!

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

2 points

Hello Mac.

"In my view, the inquest testimony takes precedence over the official report"

Hmm, first time I've heard that one. Usually, it's the other way about.

"I have to say that the idea that the two of them must have been in the same street at the same time, is a non-starter and perhaps leading away from the critical issues."

OK. And those critical issues are? (Just to keep all the ideas straight.)

Cheers.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Phil,

Halse said he went to the mortuary before returning to Mitre Square. Then he heard of the apron.

Long began moving to the police station at 3.

In my view, the inquest testimony takes precedence over the official report, because, quite simply, the former is straight from the horse's mouth.

I have to say that the idea that the two of them must have been in the same street at the same time, is a non-starter and perhaps leading away from the critical issues.

As was stated earlier, 'about' is informative here. Would they be checking their watches every few seconds, or would they be busy looking for someone/something/anything?

Hello FM,

According to Halse at the inquest he said.."I came through Goulston Street at about 2.20am and went back to Mitre Square and then accompanied Inspector Collard to the Mortuary"

from page 239 The Ultimate Sourcebook.

kindly

Phil

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi All,

Major Henry Smith—

"My men, thoroughly awake at last, were scouring the whole neighbourhood, and one of them, Halse by name, who had been with us in Mitre Square, thinking he had a better chance down Whitechapel way, ran at his best pace in that direction. Goulston Street, Whitechapel, is a broad thoroughfare running parallel with the Commercial Road, just one-third of a mile from the Square, and in that street, at the door of one of the model workmen's dwellings erected by Peabody, he saw a light, and, halting, found a constable of the Metropolitan Force looking at the missing piece of apron."

Regards,

Simon

At two minutes to two o'clock on the Sunday morning, when near Aldgate Church, in company with Detectives Outram and Marriott, I heard that a woman had been found murdered in Mitre-square. We ran to the spot, and I at once gave instructions for the neighbourhood to be searched and every man stopped and examined. I myself went by way of Middlesex-street into Wentworth-street, where I stopped two men, who, however, gave a satisfactory account of themselves. I came through Goulston-street about twenty minutes past two, and then returned to Mitre-square, subsequently going to the mortuary. I saw the deceased, and noticed that a portion of her apron was missing. I accompanied Major Smith back to Mitre-square, when we heard that a piece of apron had been found in Goulston-street. After visiting Leman-street police-station, I proceeded to Goulston-street, where I saw some chalk-writing on the black facia of the wall.

1) Thoroughly awake at last suggests they've taken some time to get their act together, i.e. not 2am when Halse moved towards Goulston Street.

2) Halse states that he accompanied Henry Smith to Mitre Square (after going to the mortuary), which ties in with Smith.

3) So, Halse legs it down the street when he hears the apron was found. Why? It's not beyond the realms of possibility to believe the murderer is still knocking around in the area. Who does he find looking at the apron? The fella left in charge by Long?

I don't see an inconsistency between Halse and Smith.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Simon,

If that is correct, then the official report of McWilliam saying that the ragpiece was found at 2.20 would be correct.. because Halse RAN from Mitre Square to Goulston Street.

I note also that Smith does not mention Halse stopping anyone in Wentworth Street either, like the official report.

So now we have two different people, Smith AND McWilliam, who compiled the official report, telling us the apron piece was NOT found at 2.55am. Also, that according to Smith, Halse SAW a light being shone.


Thank you


kindly


Phil

[Monty]

Hello Neil. Logic? A body is found in Mitre sq, so go look in Goulston st?

OK. Let's just say logic has changed a good bit since I defended my doctoral dissertation on logic in 1994.

Cheers.
LC

Lynn,

I suggest you take a look at the geography, note the direction and the buildings in between, such as Kings block etc.

A route down Goulston st and into New Goulston st indicates a return to Mitre Square. Its a logical route back without doubling back.


Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Major Henry Smith—

"My men, thoroughly awake at last, were scouring the whole neighbourhood, and one of them, Halse by name, who had been with us in Mitre Square, thinking he had a better chance down Whitechapel way, ran at his best pace in that direction. Goulston Street, Whitechapel, is a broad thoroughfare running parallel with the Commercial Road, just one-third of a mile from the Square, and in that street, at the door of one of the model workmen's dwellings erected by Peabody, he saw a light, and, halting, found a constable of the Metropolitan Force looking at the missing piece of apron."

Regards,

Simon

[Fleetwood Mac]

Phil,

Halse said he went to the mortuary before returning to Mitre Square. Then he heard of the apron.

Long began moving to the police station at 3.

In my view, the inquest testimony takes precedence over the official report, because, quite simply, the former is straight from the horse's mouth.

I have to say that the idea that the two of them must have been in the same street at the same time, is a non-starter and perhaps leading away from the critical issues.

As was stated earlier, 'about' is informative here. Would they be checking their watches every few seconds, or would they be busy looking for someone/something/anything?

[lynn cates]

logic

Hello Neil. Logic? A body is found in Mitre sq, so go look in Goulston st?

OK. Let's just say logic has changed a good bit since I defended my doctoral dissertation on logic in 1994.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

It's about time

Hello Phil. A lot of thinking here.

If McWilliam is off in an official report, perhaps other official reports are off as well?

But if his time is correct . . .

Cheers.
LC