The Apron

[Phil Carter]

Hello Lynn,

Of course, it goes without saying that the only known person (other than POSSIBLY the killer) to have been at the precise locations at the precise times was----..oh yes, Halse.

Like I said a long, long time ago..if he hadn't been a policeman, he'd have been in the frame as an accomplice. But we mustn't let logic come in the way of puppeteering...you know, the ever ready guiding hand to steer us away from such unthinkables...because the wheels come off the wagon then, don't they? And "Jack the Ripper", lonely man, loony and desperado... has a mate helping him. And if that mate was a policeman... it is VERY unlikely that THIS one man killed all five women....but then...we always have dear old Kosminsky who wouldn't know one end of a cadaver from another..and the nearest Druitt got to fine leg side was in a cricket match, let alone an inside edge with a flash of his rapier-like swipe through the covers. Far safer to leave them in, discuss them mercilessly, and exclude other more sinister possibilities. Don't want to upset the applecart do we.

Wouldn't be in the public interest...let alone the interests of the "old department" ...reputations are hard to come by.. even if they are not always well earned down the years.


Have a lovely Saturday Lynn. :-)

best wishes

Pjil

[lynn cates]

whom?

Hello Mac. Well, looks that way to me.

But whom?

Cheers.
LC

[Fleetwood Mac]

"Still, in the event he dropped the apron between 2.20 and 2.55, then where was he for at least half an hour?"

Precisely!

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

What's your thoughts then, Lynn?

Someone else dropped the apron?

[lynn cates]

questions to be asked

Hello Mac.

"Personally, I find it hard to believe that he walked from MS to GS wiping his hands all along the way.'

So do I.

"Still, in the event he dropped the apron between 2.20 and 2.55, then where was he for at least half an hour?"

Precisely!

Cheers.
LC

[Fleetwood Mac]

lynn,
The killer would not have been able to remove all signs of blood by the time he reached Goulston Street,especially from clothin,but he could have minimised the amount, to the state where dripping of blood was prevented.Also the smell from human waste was probably another factor that might be lessened by an attempt at cleaning.So I do believe the apron piece was taken with cleansing in mind,no matter that it would not be one hundred per cent effective.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that he walked from MS to GS wiping his hands all along the way.

If the knife wiping thing is the correct answer, then I'd suggest he ducked into what he considered to be the nearest safe spot to have a breather and steady himself.

Still, in the event he dropped the apron between 2.20 and 2.55, then where was he for at least half an hour?

[harry]

lynn,
The killer would not have been able to remove all signs of blood by the time he reached Goulston Street,especially from clothin,but he could have minimised the amount, to the state where dripping of blood was prevented.Also the smell from human waste was probably another factor that might be lessened by an attempt at cleaning.So I do believe the apron piece was taken with cleansing in mind,no matter that it would not be one hundred per cent effective.

[Chava]

Why Didn't He Shred That Cloth?

He's got a knife. He's in possession of a piece of cloth that will hang him if it's found on his person. I've never really subscribed to the 'he wanted to blame the Jews' theory. But if you think about it, if he has this large piece of cloth that can be matched right back to the victim's apron, why does he keep it whole? He's got a very sharp knife and he can just cut it through in places and shred it a bit. Then take his knife right through it a couple of times. And voila! A few unidentifiable shreds of cloth. Drop them around the area and he's golden. Even if he's stopped and searched, they'll never associate a small rag with the missing piece of apron.

So maybe he used it for something--cut finger, organ carrying, whatever. And then thought 'I could do myself a favour with this piece of highly incriminating evidence'. However, having said all this, I still think the safest thing would have been to get back home and burn the damn' thing. So why did he want to blame the Jews so badly. 'Anti-semetism' apart, the graffito is nowhere near intelligible enough as a Jewish admission. So maybe he didn't write it.

Or maybe his first language wasn't English...

[Jimi]

The Apron

Hi All
Been reading this thread with much interest, and i have a couple of things i would like to raise.
Firstly, do we know for definite that it was an apron? Could it have been a pinafore which is also tied at thr neck and often erroneously referred to as an apron.
Secondly, what was the said apron made from? From what i have seen there are three types of material that are possibilities-:
A, Batiste- a very sheer,thin material, possible for wiping hands but not very and useless for carrying organs due to the leakage.
B, Cotton- Good for wiping hands, not so much for carrying organs,however,would Eddowes have had access to cotton in 1880s England?
C, Calico- A very coarse type of cotton, much cheaper and rougher,thicker than cotton. Trying to wipe your hands on Calico would be possible but,i believe, more like using cardboard, too stiff. However it would be the best for carrying off organs, little leakage plus it would,i believe, be more in Eddowes range than the other two.
If i could also mention with a view to the anti-semitic comments made, did you know that the apron and the mens belt were viewed by the Jewish as the dividing garment between the spiritual and the earthly(sexual) areas of the body.
Keep Well
Jimi

[lynn cates]

bloodied clothing

Hello Harry. Is it possible to remove blood from clothing using a piece of cloth?

Cheers.
LC

[harry]

Besides the hands,there would probably be quite a deal of bloodied coat sleeve to clean,and in that case it would take more than one swipe of the apron.So I have no difficulty in believing it could have taken untill Goulston street before the killer was satisfied that outward traces of blood had been removed.

[lynn cates]

anti-Semitism

Hello Malcolm. I can see anti-Semitism in Liz's case--possibly even Eddowes'. But MJK?

Cheers.
LC

[Carol]

Carol,

Ha, excellent retort......I like you.

You'll do for me, me duck.

Monty

Monty,

Well, thank goodness for that! I was really getting worried about my pulling power.

Carol

[Monty]

Monty,

I think you're sweet, too.

Carol

Carol,

Ha, excellent retort......I like you.

You'll do for me, me duck.

Monty

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello Fleetwood Mac

If I was a police officer on patrol and I came across an article of clothing that had blood on it, I would tend to think that the person who had been wearing that piece of clothing had been involved in an assault or some type of accident that took place at that location. I would therefore investigate the vicinity in which I found the bloodied clothing. I should think this would have been pro forma conduct for a beat copper of the day.

Best regards

Chris George

Hi Chris,

Yes, in this day and age we surely would.

If I were a police officer in 1888, however, in an age of people wandering around with blood on their hands etc, I'm not convinced the apron would be an event out of the ordinary and one warranting an assumption of murder.

[Malcolm X]

Hello Malcolm. That was Sir Charles' opinion as well.

Wynne Baxter thought both Kate and Liz very different from Polly and Annie. He also noted the wide disparity between Kate and Liz themselves.

Cheers.
LC

yes i actually mentioned that 5 mins ago, but deleted my words

these last 3 murders do indeed look different from the first 2 or even 3, they also look different from all the other unsolved murders, simply because they are linked by anti-semetism, like a spiders web..... none of the other murders have any mention of anything! this is most odd, but unfortunately this might mean nothing, just the killer getting bolder and looking to cause rioting on the streets etc.

.