Kate's choice of "Mary Ann Kelly"

[Jon Guy]

Hi Sox

She may have been wanted for something else by the Police going as Eddowes. Her ex, who beat her, could trace her. She had family living in the area who she could be traced back to her. She was said to have been thrown out of the Shoe Lane Ward for something that morning.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

Which facts would these be then?

Mainly her only giving the Police the false name as she was walking out the door.

[Sox]

Hey Sox,

It's good to be unknown to the police, no?
I there were no ID cards, computers, etc, I'd always introduce myself as Mary Ann Kelly, if arrested.

Thats my point, even if she gives her name as Catherine Eddowes, she's still unknown to the Police, because in 1888 they have no way of tracking her down via her name unless she has an address, which she does not. The last address we have is 55 Flower and Dean Street, but she gives her address as 6 Fashion Street. Both lodging houses.

And yet, for all these aliases, she is buried under the name of Catherine Eddowes, unlike Mary Kelly, who is buried under the name of an alias (or so we are led to believe)

[lynn cates]

exploring avenues

Hello Curious.

"I'm personally just mentally exploring a lot of avenues, and I'm very glad to have so many people with so many different ideas to fuel my own thinking."

I wish more of us would do this. By the way, be careful. Such free thinking can get you lambasted!

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

snitch

Hello Curious.

"Nor do we know for sure why Kate was there. She had no money to buy that much drink. Plus, wasn't she considered a "snitch" of some kind?"

Well, she claimed to be. It has been said that she claimed to have been back to claim the reward money for "Jack."

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

certitude

Hello DVV.

"I'm sure the WM weren't political murders. That's what I mean."

Well, there's a good chance that they were not. But how are you SURE? That's a rather high level of epistemic involvement.

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

partial explanation

Hello Kat.

"As for giving her name as Kelly, am I getting confused to say that her common law husband was called Kelly?? Not surprising at all then that she used his name."

Well, that'd certainly explain the cognomen. But the other part?

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

which?

Hello Jon.

"Personally, I feel that facts that we do have to hand, allow us to push this door firmly shut."

Which facts would these be then?

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

how many?

Hello Sox.

"In terms of a killer looking for these women by name then I think that we can pretty much discount any notion that he 'knew' his victims....if he did indeed know them then he would surely have been asking around for 'Polly' or 'Long Liz' or a 'Dark Annie'....easily found no?"

Of course, this assumes ONE killer. I am not forced to make such an assumption. I tend to link Polly and Annie whilst linking Kate and Mary Jane. (Oops! Time to start dodging!)

The best.
LC

[DVV]

I'll ask the question again, seeing as it was either missed or ignored.

Why did Kate give a 'false' name when she had clearly not been arrested & was leaving the station? At that point she could have said ''Catherine Eddowes'' without suffering any adverse consequences at all. The false address I can fully understand......but not the name.

Hey Sox,

It's good to be unknown to the police, no?
I there were no ID cards, computers, etc, I'd always introduce myself as Mary Ann Kelly, if arrested.

Amitiés,
David

ps: a witness named Lechmere gave his name as Cross. Question of taste?

[DVV]

I do wonder if it's not possible that Mary Jane Kelly was more than she appeared to be
curious

Hi Curious,

I'm afraid she might have been "less" than can be said here or there.
She couldn't even pay her rent.

Amitiés,
David

[Sox]

I'll ask the question again, seeing as it was either missed or ignored.

Why did Kate give a 'false' name when she had clearly not been arrested & was leaving the station? At that point she could have said ''Catherine Eddowes'' without suffering any adverse consequences at all. The false address I can fully understand......but not the name.

[curious]

I find it harder to suspend reality enough to think that the killings were part of some Fenian plot to subvert the British Government, Or some Anarchist's plot to provoke a revolution.

I don't believe the killings were either of those.

I do wonder if it's not possible that Mary Jane Kelly was more than she appeared to be and hers was a case of a copycat killing to blend in with what was already happening in the area where she lived.

I'm personally just mentally exploring a lot of avenues, and I'm very glad to have so many people with so many different ideas to fuel my own thinking.

Thanks everyone for all the discussions.

curious

[curious]

Hi Curious

The inquest reports have no mention of the police searching her, and more importantly, of returning her belongings on her release.

The Police did not know her name upon her release, so they could not of seen the pawn tickets.

I think you're assuming here.

Why would the inquest mention whether the police searched her or not?

I don't know what normal procedure was then, I'm asking.

and if jailers want, they have the option of going through "things" off the record . . . we don't know who might have known what about Kate.

Nor do we know for sure why Kate was there. She had no money to buy that much drink. Plus, wasn't she considered a "snitch" of some kind? Perhaps she was a great actress who got herself arrested on purpose in order to see someone inside the jail. (and my knowledge is vague here, but wasn't she arrested in a different police district? Was that on purpose?)

There's no mention made of that, but I've watched enough jail and prison shows and movies to suspect a lot of possibilities.

Oh, well, so many questions . . . .

curious

[DVV]

Ah Mike,

if it comes to probability...
Klosowski married one Annie Chapman, and became Abberline's Jack...
At the age of 39, Martha has been stabbed 39 times.
But it wasn't her birthday.

Amitiés mon cher,
David