The Bloody Piece of Apron Redux

[mariab]

Hi Jane and all,
I definitely see "2 doors from Wendworth Str“ (first line) and “2 blocks“ (second line) as Jane and Dave said, and I work with handwritten 19th century texts on a daily basis (for my job).

Hi Errata,
the Ripper most evidently was not a regular anyone, and one can easily stop a bleeding cut with a piece of tissue of pillowcase proportions in 5'-10' minutes, just by keeping it wrapped. I suspect that not just the bleeding, but also the fecal matter was a factor here for making the killer want to whipe his hand(s) on foreign cloth. Cutting his own hand while engaging in the kind of mutilations that occurred during the Eddowes (and Mary Kelly) slaying is a likelihood.

[curious4]

Cut hand

In the prevailing unsanitary conditions, wrapping a piece of very dirty cloth around a cut would almost certainly lead to blood poisoning. Perhaps that what made Jack stop - he died of bloodpoisoning after killing Mary Kelly lol.

[mariab]

case closed

Hello Curious,
I think we just cracked the case. LOL.

[Errata]

In the prevailing unsanitary conditions, wrapping a piece of very dirty cloth around a cut would almost certainly lead to blood poisoning. Perhaps that what made Jack stop - he died of bloodpoisoning after killing Mary Kelly lol.

Well, it isn't entirely impossible. It also isnt entirely impossible that he crippled himself during the murder of Eddowes or Kelly (depending on how you feel about Kelly being in the C5). The effort it takes to cut through abdominal muscle and perhaps even clothing is such that if you cut your own hand, it is likely with enough force to sever the tendons in your palm or fingers. And that was not a treatable injury in 1888. It's actually the one way I could buy George Chapman as JtR. His method would have changed because it became physically impossible to continue his previous method. Not that there is any record or George Chapman having a crippled hand...

[Errata]

Hi Errata,
the Ripper most evidently was not a regular anyone, and one can easily stop a bleeding cut with a piece of tissue of pillowcase proportions in 5'-10' minutes, just by keeping it wrapped. I suspect that not just the bleeding, but also the fecal matter was a factor here for making the killer want to whipe his hand(s) on foreign cloth. Cutting his own hand while engaging in the kind of mutilations that occurred during the Eddowes (and Mary Kelly) slaying is a likelihood.

Ok. I apologize if it seems that I am picking on you for this. I'm trying to make a bunch of things make sense in my head, so I am sort of challenging your theory to do this. This is gonna seem weird, but I think it will let you see where I am coming from.

I have worked with knives my whole life. Swords daggers knives scalpels etc. Sitting at a workbench, standing, moving, kneeling, sitting on the floor. And I've screwed up a bunch of times, and I am in fact covered with scars. Now, a couple were inflicted on me (not on purpose). So I won't count those. I have three knife scars on my hand, about five on my abdomen, one on my arm, and about 30 on my legs.

The scars on my hands are pretty simple, and I am right handed. I have a slash across the back of my left hand I gave myself after being bitten by a snake. I have one across the webbing of my left thumb where i almost cut my thumb off. I had my hand spread to brace leather as I was cutting it, and the knife ripped through a lot easier than I anticipated. And I almost cut my thumb off. The last is cut across my left index finger. I was trying to use a small knife with a broken tip as a screwdriver to open up a watch I was holding, and it slipped, lodging itself in the bone.

Aside from those three scars, everything else is on my legs and abdomen. And all of them are from the knife slipping when I was either cutting towards myself or trying to do something over my lap and when the knife or scissors or ice pick slipped, it would get buried in my thigh. Usually my left.

I think of the way the Ripper was using the knife, and I can think of only two ways he could cut his hand with his own knife. The first would be like where I almost cut my thumb off. The second would be if for some reason he decided to hold what he wanted cut in his left hand, and drew the knife through his hand, cutting through the whatever and laying open his palm (the bagel cutting injury). And that's a dumb thing to do. Every other way he would cut himself would be on the leg, probably right above the knee. If the knife slipped on the abdominal cuts, likely he would just fall backward from the lack of resistance. But if he was close enough to his own body it would bounce up and he would stab himself about an inch above the body, which would be about mid thigh. Any position he was in, I think he had to spend a great deal of time bracing himself over the body with his non knife hand, which puts it out of reach of the blade.

I could see the thumb cut happening. But the problem is that it immediately cripples you (it hurts like hell and your thumb goes dead for a while), and he would have to continue one handed. Which didn't happen. He couldnt cut the apron with that thumb injury, because it requires quite a bit of stress on the hand that the thumb can't take. The bagel cutting injury is sort of so dumb I can't credit it, but even so, it would be even more crippling than the thumb. If he stabbed himself in the leg, then that's an even bigger problem. Even if it was shallow, he would limp. Your body tries to protect an injury whether you want it to or not. And I can't see the apron being terribly useful there. He would have to drop trou, wrap a pillowcase around his leg, limp off, get to the GSG, drop trou again, etc.

We sort of forget about the amount of blood these mutilations result in. At least I do. I think of television drama surgery blood. But it's not. His arms were absolutely soaked/dripping to the shoulder. He reached in through her abdominal cavity into her chest. His pants are soaked, unless he managed to remain squatting the whole time. His front is splashed liberally with blood and other liquids. And we are assuming he didn't scratch his nose or run a hand through his hair. It is entirely possible that he was wearing literally an amount of blood equal to what was left in her body. If not more. How does he clean up from that? Surely not the apron. It would be covered in blood. Not merely spotted with it. Does he clean up and then get the apron? I would have thought there would be more urgency to get away.

anyway. this is how i am pondering.

[mariab]

Hi Errata,
there are many different ways of cutting one's hand while using a knife or on broken glass or on a pointy metal surface, as in when prying open a resisting can of food or bottle of wine or when repairing a car or fence, as we've all experienced many times in our everyday life. Not all deep cuts require stiches (unless there's a thick flap of skin moving around), and even deep cuts tend to stop bleeding in about 20'min. to half an hour tops, if one applies pressure with a cloth. The key to stop the bleeding (if you don't have Mercurochrom handy) is applying pressure on the wound, and that's what I suspect that the piece of apron might have been used for if the Ripper briefly took it away with him.
Applying pressure on a wound can save one's life even after a shark attack. When professional surfer Bethany Hamilton lost her left arm from a tiger shark attack, she was kept from bleeding to death by her father tying his jersey around her arm with a surf leash, until they paddled in to shore and got a ride to the hospital, where she got a blood transfusion before surgery.
I've had quite a few deep cuts in my life, and they don't really hurt much (papercuts or a sour throat hurt much more). The bleeding is the nuisance. Also, they don't leave scars for longer than a few months.
Obviously I'm not suggesting that the Ripper almost cut his thumb off, I'm speaking of a “regular“ cut, and particularly stressing the presence of fecal matter flowing around.
You've been bitten by a snake? A poisonous one?

[Errata]

You've been bitten by a snake? A poisonous one?

Yes and no. I was bitten by a copperhead, which is a poisonous snake, however this particular copperhead had emptied out all of his venom of the guy he bit before me, so i ended up cutting myself for nothing.

which probably explains my need for forked sticks when working outdoors.

[mariab]

So the copperhead bit someone else before you?

[sgh]

Foster's site plan - the handwritten notes

Many thanks to Jane, Dave (Protohistorian) and Mariab for your valued input.


Got the handwriting 'almost' sorted now after enhancing it in photoshop.
Just two words remain that I can't be sure of.

I think it was worth doing the excercise just in case there's confirmation
to the exact location of the bloody apron, ie on the pathway to the entrance
or inside the doorway, thus how easily it could be seen by a casual passerby, etc.

I'm posting this enhanced version again to save you time skipping back and forth
through posts.



It reads:


2 doors from Wentworth Street


the 3 on The right. ? blocks


about 30'0 away Rt hand side


doorway about 20 - 0 from, have


found inside entrance to ? numbers from


108 to 119

[sleekviper]

Looks like -2 doors from wentworth street-the 3 on the right-about 30 feet away-that side doorway-about 20 degrees from pane 5-found inside entrance to window numbers from 103(108) to 119.
Then either- in blocks- or -in blood- off to the side.

[Errata]

So the copperhead bit someone else before you?

Yeah he bit the guy who stepped on him. Evidently he blew his load on that bite so that when I reached down and grabbed him to throw him in the woods and he bit the back of my hand, he had no venom left. So I cut my hand for nothing.

[mariab]

Thank you, sgh and Sleek. The attachment on post #250 is completely underlit and invisible on my computer. Grrr.

Yeah he bit the guy who stepped on him. Evidently he blew his load on that bite so that when I reached down and grabbed him to throw him in the woods and he bit the back of my hand, he had no venom left. So I cut my hand for nothing.

Wow. But better safe than sorry, it's good that you cut your hand. What happened to the guy that got bit first?

[Errata]

Wow. But better safe than sorry, it's good that you cut your hand. What happened to the guy that got bit first?

Copperheads are not terribly dangerous snakes, but my friend had a ton of complications from an allergic reaction and his hemophilia. He got really sick and lost a kidney. We knew that he was at a much higher risk if he got bitten by a snake, which is why i grabbed it and tossed it. I didn't know if he had actually gotten bitten yet, and he couldn't afford the snake taking another swing at him. The venom made his hemophilia go haywire, and he had an allergy. If I had gotten the same venom dose i would have had what felt like a wicked case of the flu and some swelling. I wouldn't even have bothered to cut the bite if it wasn't on my hand, which i kinda needed to not be the size of a grapefruit.

But don't do that. I am notoriously dumb about this stuff. If you get bitten by a snake, do all the things they tell you to do. Doctors hate people like me and dont give them things like anesthetics for stitches as punishment.

[mariab]

Wow, too bad for your friend.
If I got bitten by a snake, I'd open it a bit and let some blood get out, then pee on it. (Very glamorous.) Before I got to a doctor.
Wow, with the copperhead bite and the shark you pulled up on the boat, you're kinda living da life, Errata. Sounds like fun!

[curious4]

Bites, cuts etc etc

Hello all.

Isnīt it jellyfish stings you pee on? Does it also work for snakes? Much easier if you are a man - suppose
it depends where it is!

Wasnīt Wentworth street where the Prince of Wales (at the time, I hasten to add) had a room in which to change when he was out slumming? I seem to remember that he wanted to shower gold coins on some poor families and was quickly stopped, as they were likely to be murdered for it if it was seen, which points to them being in disguise.

"always curious, always inquisitive, always picking up odds and ends for our patchwork minds, since there is no knowing when and where they may fit into some corner;" Dickens

P.S. Couldnīt that last piece be the graffiti - looks like it. "The jewes" and "noth" at the end.