Kate Eddowes as Mary Ann Kelly.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Tom.
The Fiona in question is not Fiona Rule, but the proven desendant of McCarthy, Fiona Kendall-lane, her remarks many moons ago were intresting to say the least, but alas [ I tried to calm the situation] she took offense at certain posters who challenged her claims, and refused to play ball.
Our loss I am certain.
Regards Richard.

[claire]

I have actually found the post from Fiona Kendall-Lane which reads:

"Mary Jane Kelly was her real name. My father said his father (my Grandfather Steve McCarthy) saw her passport when his mother Elizabeth (wife of my Great Grandfather Jack McC) packed up her personal effects and sent them to her brother - he was serving with an Irish brigade in Ireland"

This whole passport business is interesting, then. Actually, I don't really see why MJK should have had a passport at all--they weren't required at that time and it seems unlikely her alleged trip to France would encourage her to get one (given that it seems likely that prostitution was the reason for travel, why should her 'benefactor' suggest a document of safe passage?). But, that said, as long as MJK wasn't born in 1857 (records missing), she should be identifiable in the passport records that are available from 1794. Anyone around who has made a trip to the National Archives to search this?

And, no, if Fiona is reading this, I'm not trying to criticise, merely to verify.

[Salome]

Hello again Richard,
Coral mentions in a post on the thread about Fiona Kendall-Lane's recent talk at the Whitechapel Society something about her not publicising her forthcoming book, (sorry, I can't remember the exact wording). She wrote something like she refrained from mentioning the title, publication date, etc, etc. Unfortunately I was away in August and missed the talk but it sounds like she discussed most of things that she posted about last year. Going back to those posts, I have one in front of me now in which she wrote:

"As I have said, I am a writer by trade. I have written about the McCarthys and the Kendalls as a new docu-novel genre but have put it away until the right time to publish. Jack McC (and Steve and Dad) knew the identity of the Ripper and his motive and so do I"

So, we wait with baited breath, although I'm not keen on the 'novel' bit - suggests fiction

[Salome]

Hi Claire,
I did go to the PRO to check the passport records after this post was made. I did not find a record of a passport being issued to a Mary Kelly. You're quite right, at that time passports were not needed to travel between Ireland, England, Wales or France and were almost exclusively held by the wealthy.
Regards,
Salome

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Salome. Good legwork at the PRO there. Interesting to know that. So you feel her story is all hot air? If she is demonstratably related to John McCarthy, that's cool. That does NOT make her a 'proven descendant of Mary Kelly' however as I've seen others say. It gets tiresome hearing people say they know the Ripper's identity but won't say. There's no reason not to if you really do. Lord knows enough of us chime on about it even though we DON'T know!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[richardnunweek]

Hi Salome,
Excellent point, that is exactly why Fiona[ Kendall -lane] need to clarify her position in making herself known to 'Casebook' and discussing such valid questions, and not hide under the safety of a spokeswoman.
Regards Richard,

[Salome]

Hi Tom,
I certainly wouldn't say that I think Fiona Kendall-Lane is all hot air. I think she has a lot of interesting things to say about the McCarthys and Kendalls which bear further discussion and investigation. At least some of the stories she tells must be rooted in reality although possibly embellished over the years. You know even if she wrote a book that wasn't the solution to the Whitechapel Murders but just an account of her family at the time, I'd still want to read it, probably more so.

Regards,
Salome

[claire]

Thanks Salome, nice work

As you say, it's not a belief that Fiona K-L is all hot air that I think drives people's, umm, intense questioning. But the fact that she recounts the stories in good faith does not, unfortunately, make them true.

[Tom_Wescott]

Salome,

Her credentials as a McCarthy descendant would alone make her book a must read, so I'm with you there. Perhaps what she thought was a passport was actually something else and your research will held lead to the proper identification of this piece of identification. That's one reason the Casebook and it's researchers can be so helpful to an author. Can someone direct me to the thread Fiona was posting on? I took a Casebook sabatical over the last few months and apparently missed some stuff.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[richardnunweek]

Hi Tom,
In absolute agreement, quote 'Theres no reason not to if you really do'
No come on Fiona- take a chance - honestly if my grans father was a bobby in whitechapel in 1888, and he expressed a suspicion upon a certain individual as possibly being the 'Whitechapel murderer , and that belief was handed down through generations and landed on yours truelys lap, do you believe that i would be reluctant to share that imformation with the lovers of unsolved crime cases, such as the infamous'Jack The Ripper's world wide site
'Casebook'?.
I rest my case.
Regards Richard.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Claire,
Her stories were infact mentioned initially in 'Good Faith', but as you know, some casebook members challenged her authenticity, and that was that, enter Coral, who explained her [ fiona's] reluctance to proceed with the way conversation was apparently heading, which was lets 'discuss this further', but alas Fiona froze, and although willing to discuss her familys colourful life, is not prepeared to answe questions that are really relevant to 'Casebook' namely the subject of 'Jack The Ripper'.
Regards Richard.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Richard,

Fiona Kendall Lane doesn't have to clarify her position to anyone, least of all Casebookers. Of course any information she has is paramount to this case, but from what I understand she has now chosen to set it down in a book. Quite understandable. Good for her. I hope it sells a zillion copies and brings her the life style she's always dreamed about.

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

regarding passports- the French prostitute ,Marie Duplessis , who became the subject of the Alexandre Dumas [fils]book , La Dame Aux Camelias ,seems to have had to obtain a passport when she travelled to England from France in 1845.But she was travelling with an aristocrat who married her in London.So maybe his wealth was the reason she had a passport.We dont really know whether there was any truth in Mary Kelly"s claim that she was taken to France by a wealthy West End client,it could be true,because several people referred to her as being very attractive.Her drinking was claimed to have caused her earlier problems.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Around the period starting 1887—1889 the Foreign Office was recommending British subjects to obtain passports before travelling abroad. The Russians, Germans and French were changing their rules. I have a cautionary notice from The Times which I will locate and post.

Regards,

Simon

[claire]

Hi Norma,
Just to note, passports weren't required until just after the first world war, at which time they became documents of (British) identity. Before that, some people would get them as documents of 'safe passage,' denoting that the monarch/secretary of state would help them out if they got into difficulty. But if MJK had one and it was, as FKL claims, in that name, there would be a record of it.