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Kate Eddowes as Mary Ann Kelly.

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  • Kate Eddowes as Mary Ann Kelly.

    I saw in another thread that some people believe that there must be a link between Eddowes and Kelly as Eddowes had used the name Mary Ann Kelly shortly before she dies.
    I was wondering what people tohught about this??
    Personally I have a couple of points to make.
    1) Mary Ann was not an uncommon name in the LVP.
    2) Eddowes was the common law wife of a Kelly so the use of that name is not suprising.
    3) Eddowes herself had a relative by the name Mary Ann.
    4) If this idea applies to Kelly then why not to Nichols whose name actually was Mary Ann.
    I hope it is ok to post this as a new thread as I could not find a suitable thread to add it to.
    In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

  • #2
    Good points, Kat - I'll only add that she gave these details to PC Hutt on her release, stating that she lived at 6, Fashion Street. She was almost certainly plucking names and addresses out of the air - probably to keep her name clear and/or to avoid any further hassle from the law in connection with her drunken behaviour the previous night.

    In point of fact 6, Fashion Street is listed as a "Chandler's Shop" in the 1891 Census, and occupied exclusively by Jews. I can't be sure that such would have been the case some 2½ years prior to the census, but I wouldn't be surprised.
    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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    • #3
      Is it not true to say that Eddowes had her smalls done at a local wash house under the name of Mary Kelly a long time before her murder?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Cap'n Jack View Post
        Is it not true to say that Eddowes had her smalls done at a local wash house under the name of Mary Kelly a long time before her murder?
        Not sure, AP - I recall that she pawned the boots under the name of "Jane Kelly", but that's not the same story, is it?
        Last edited by Sam Flynn; 07-30-2008, 12:36 AM.
        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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        • #5
          Gareth,

          Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
          In point of fact 6, Fashion Street is listed as a "Chandler's Shop" in the 1891 Census, and occupied exclusively by Jews. I can't be sure that such would have been the case some 2½ years prior to the census, but I wouldn't be surprised.
          In quest testimony of Frederick Wilkinson: I am deputy of the lodging-house at Flower and Dean-street. I have known the deceased and Kelly during the last seven years. They passed as man and wife, and lived on very good terms. They had a quarrel now and then, but not violent. They sometimes had a few words when Kate was in drink, but they were not serious. I believe she got her living by hawking about the streets and cleaning amongst the Jews in Whitechapel.

          Work address perhaps?

          Monty




          Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

          http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

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          • #6
            Good Morning all

            Eddowes also used the address 6 Dorset St, under the name Jane Kelly, to pawn John Kelly`s boots. A little mix and match on names and addresses perhaps ?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Monty View Post
              I believe she got her living by hawking about the streets and cleaning amongst the Jews in Whitechapel.[/I]

              Work address perhaps?
              ...good idea, Monty. If not a "quasi-permanent" work address - which may have been too "traceable" back to her - then possibly somewhere she'd turned up for duty before.
              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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              • #8
                It is likely she chose an address that was real and known to her.
                In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                  Eddowes also used the address 6 Dorset St, under the name Jane Kelly, to pawn John Kelly`s boots. A little mix and match on names and addresses perhaps ?
                  6, Dorset Street was also an almost exclusively Jewish dwelling in 1891, and may well have functioned as a tailor's shop. The head of the household was one Barnet Mukvitch, a Polish tailor, who lived there with his wife, two male compatriots (also tailors) and a Polish tailoress. The only non-Jewish resident was a general servant, Sarah Rose, born Suffolk.
                  Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                  "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                  • #10
                    It would be great if some of the people who were saying on another thread that they though that there was a link would comment on this!
                    In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

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                    • #11
                      Also when Eddowes was taken in at bishopsgate police station she gave her name as Mary Kelly!
                      Some theories say that Eddowes was killed instead of Mary kelly, was Eddowes killed by mistake?

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                      • #12
                        Supt Arnold wrote in a report that Alice McKenzie was known to use the Whitechapel bath and washouses under the name Kelly


                        Was Mary Kelly killed by mistake ?

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                        • #13
                          Or was it someone else in 13 millers court?

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                          • #14
                            Evening all. Something I've always wondered is why did Mary Kelly (of Millers Court) only use that name? It seems that it was the norm for these women to take on the name of the man they were living with even if they weren't married to them yet as far as I know, none of the witnesses that give evidence about Kelly ever refer to her as Barnett, Morganstone, Fleming or Davies. In fact, I seem to remember that Joe Barnett is referred to as 'Kelly' by someone but I need to check that.

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                            • #15
                              Hi Salome,

                              That's a good point actually. If it had suited MJK to call herself Mary Barnett no doubt she would have done. So it could be an indication that she never took their relationship all that seriously, or maybe she just liked her little bit of independence. She comes across as her own woman.

                              Also, if Joe wanted her to use his name he was disappointed. A little under the thumb perhaps, or just happy to go along with whatever kept Mary happy and a window or two intact! Somehow I can't see many people being able to tell Mary what to do.

                              Love,

                              Caz
                              X
                              "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


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