Kate Eddowes as Mary Ann Kelly.

[lynn cates]

research

Hello Debs. Great find.

Are we looking at two or three Mary Ann Kellys here?

I'll see if I can dredge up something later on.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Mary Ann Kelly

Hello Debs. Just ran across a Mary Ann Kelly b. 1852 Westminster; d. Westminster, July, 1888.

She married a Henry Hoyte in Whitechapel, 1873.

Unfortunately, it is all family tree.

Been down this road yet?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hi Lynn,

What I was trying to determine was if the John and Mary Kelly living at 3 Paternoster Row in 1881 (he a dock labourer which wasn't John Kelly's trade as far as we know?) were really Eddowes' John Kelly and his first 'wife', Mary Ann?

Mark King concluded it was in an article in Ripperana 12. His conclusions appear to based on two records- the 1881 census entry I just mentioned and a death certificate for a woman named Mary Ann Kelly of the same age and living at 55 Flower and Dean Street when she died ( a known address of John Kelly). Mary Ann was a chair caner by trade. Transcripts of both records appear in my first post.

Whilst looking in the Infirmary records for 85-88 I came across a Mary Ann Kelly, address given the majority of times as 55 Flower and Dean who disappears in the records after late 87 (so could tie in with the death certificate) but this MAK gives her husband's name as William Kelly. Could this be the Mary Ann Kelly who died in May 88 at 55 Flower and Dean Street and not the one married to a John Kelly on the 1881 census at Paternoster Row? Seeing as we don't know for sure that is even Eddowes' John Kelly?

[lynn cates]

possible identification

Hello Debs. Thanks.

So the possible identification involves John (with MAK) and William (same)?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. Thanks.

So the possible identification involves John (with MAK) and William (same)?

Cheers.
LC

John Kelly was a very common name, so we basically have Mark King focusing on the John Kelly, b c 1842 ,a dock labourer living with his wife Mary Ann at 3 Paternoster Row. The age would be about right for Eddowes' John Kelly but what else ties this record to Eddowes' John Kelly?

Then we have a death certificate for a 42 year old ( b c 1846) woman named Mary Ann Kelly. address 55 Flower and Dean Street. Mary Ann is a chair caner, that's all we know of her from the certificate

Then we have a Mary Ann Kelly in the Infirmary records also b c 1846, known to have given her address as 55 Flower and Dean Street a few times between 86 and 87. This Mary Ann was the widow of William Kelly, a timber porter (the Infirmary record tells us this). Mary Ann doesn't appear in the Infirmary records after Oct. 87 as far as I can see, leaving the possibility that she died. In the 1881 census there is a Mary Kelly, widow living at Bethnal Green and carrying on the occupation of chair caner.

[lynn cates]

John and Mary

Hello Debs. Thanks.

" The age would be about right for Eddowes' John Kelly but what else ties this record to Eddowes' John Kelly?"

Well, so far as I can see, nothing. Occupation looks wrong.

The Mary Ann's, however, look like a match.

I'll keep trying.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

begin

Hello Debs. I need a starting point against which to compare. I found the following death notice of a John Kelly, aged 50 (born 1842), from Whitechapel, first quarter 1892.

Is this reasonable for our John? Can he be ruled out in any way?

If not, I'll see if there are any matching records with "William" in the name.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hi Lynn
I may now have a possible marriage-

On Oct 21st 1866, at St James Church, Shoreditch (my 1881 seat caner was born Shoreditch)

William Kelley, age 25, batchelor, boot(?) maker married Mary Ann Fitz Simmonds, age 21 (b c 1845, which fits) a spinster and daughter of James Patrick Fitz Simmonds a chair and couch maker (which fits with chair caning?)

In one Infirmary entry Mary Ann Kelly's surname is spelled Kelley.

and a death for William:

William Kelley
Estimated Birth Year: abt. 1842
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1874
Age at Death: 32
Registration district: Shoreditch
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 61

In the Infirmary records that I mentioned on another thread, a John Kelly b c 1842 consistently listed as a market porter, Roman catholic and single appears. In 1891 this man died (I can't remember the exact date but will find it again and corresponding index entry)

[Debra A]

John Kelly's death?

This is who I think is a a possible for Eddowes' Kelly, Lynn
He was in the Infirmary on several occasions between 1885 and 1890 and always gave the address of 55 Flower and Dean Street:

The last entry for this John Kelly has him entering the Whitechapel Infirmary on 27th June 1890 and dying on the 29th of June 1890 from dropsy. His age is given as 47 , single, address 55 Flower and Dean Street and occupation a market porter.

Here's the death in free BMD

Deaths Sep 1890
Kelly John 47 Whitechapel 1c 189

[lynn cates]

John and Mary Ann

Hello Debs. Thanks. Looks good to me (yes, congruent with chair caner).

I found a John Kelly, with father William, who married Mary Ann Murphy.

2 problems:

1. He was a tailor.

2. They married 1865 in Yorkshire.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

death date

Hello Debs. Thanks. Slight problem--my bloke died January, 1892.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. Thanks. Slight problem--my bloke died January, 1892.

Cheers.
LC

So, Lynn, your guy may appear on the 1891 census in Whitechapel then? B C 1842. Then we can see his occupation?

[lynn cates]

Ah!

Hello Debs. Thanks.

Splendid idea! Glad one of us has a brain.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

infirmary

Hello Debs. I'm blown. Can't find my bloke in 1891.

Ironically, there are many John and Mary Ann's and John and Catherine's.

Is it possible that the John who died in January, 1892 in Whitechapel was in an infirmary when the census came round?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. I'm blown. Can't find my bloke in 1891.

Ironically, there are many John and Mary Ann's and John and Catherine's.

Is it possible that the John who died in January, 1892 in Whitechapel was in an infirmary when the census came round?

Cheers.
LC

He should still have been traceable in there, Lynn, but your man did die in the Whitechapel infirmary on 9th Feb 1892 of Phthisis.
Whitechapel Infirmary: Register of Deaths; Call Number: STBG/WH/128/02.
Unfortunately, the corresponding Whitechapel Infirmary admission and discharge book 1891-1895, which would have held his details, has the last few pages missing or un filmed, and they are the ones his entry [ #4340 according to the index] would have appeared on.