Chapman Timeline

[Herlock Sholmes]

Despite my request that, out of respect for the purpose of the thread, and despite my creating another thread to discuss ToD Fishy ignores this request and continues to try and detail this thread. As everyone has noted.

[Herlock Sholmes]

You see Doc thats were people like you make your mistake , Phillips testimony in regards to T.o.d was ''TWO HOURS '' , that stands alone as his estimate . Only ''after'' he added the ''Probably more'' should that part become a debatable issue as to the cold morning . I hope ive cleared up your misunderstanding of the evidence.

As for Chandler, youll also find more evidence in regards to Richardsons testimony that comes into question as to its accuracy , like i said there is much overwheming evidence when one choose to look for it .

Responded to on the ToD thread

[Herlock Sholmes]

What you get from ''Fishy'' Herlock is evidence from the inquest that enables me to form an opinion as to Chapmans time of death . What we get from you time and time again is conjucture , circumstancial contradictory evidence , unproven theories , dodgy clocks , expert medical opinion that was incorrect without knowing for a fact it was

. I could go on, but its boring me . Funny how reliable and almost to the minute other Dr T.O.D estimates were, but Dr Phillipps was way out !

Responded to on the ToD thread

[Herlock Sholmes]

As i said ,it was a stupid question that proves nothing in relation to the topic at hand , you only asked it to bait me for your own self benefit just so you can crow about how i cant answer a yes/no question . Its clever tactic youve been using for years , but i think you over do it at times .

Responded to on ToD thread

[Herlock Sholmes]

Why did he feel the need to invent the boot story at the inquest ? , he could see all around the yard from the position he was standing in the back door entrance looking to his right to check the lock .

Responded on ToD thread

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thats simple not correct , there are muliple pieces of evidence provided during the inquest by Inspector Chandler and Dr Phillips that overwhelmingly point to an earlier T.O.D. Its there , its been reposted many times , it exist , your just chooseing to ignore it .

Response on ToD thread.

[FISHY1118]

Oh, really, overwhelming evidence! Chandler merely quoted Phillip's initial ToD, and Phillips clearly told the inquest that his initial ToD might be flawed because of the cold morning.

I am underwhelmed.

Now lets get back to the subject of this thread.

You see Doc thats were people like you make your mistake , Phillips testimony in regards to T.o.d was ''TWO HOURS '' , that stands alone as his estimate . Only ''after'' he added the ''Probably more'' should that part become a debatable issue as to the cold morning . I hope ive cleared up your misunderstanding of the evidence.

As for Chandler, youll also find more evidence in regards to Richardsons testimony that comes into question as to its accuracy , like i said there is much overwheming evidence when one choose to look for it .

[Doctored Whatsit]

Thats simple not correct , there are muliple pieces of evidence provided during the inquest by Inspector Chandler and Dr Phillips that overwhelmingly point to an earlier T.O.D. Its there , its been reposted many times , it exist , your just chooseing to ignore it .

Oh, really, overwhelming evidence! Chandler merely quoted Phillip's initial ToD, and Phillips clearly told the inquest that his initial ToD might be flawed because of the cold morning.

I am underwhelmed.

Now lets get back to the subject of this thread.

[FISHY1118]

Exactly Doc. I get this every time with Fishy. This is why I joke about predicting whether it’s ‘ignore the question,’ ‘change the subject,’ ‘obfuscate,’ etc. I’ve lost count of the amount of times we have got to the point where out it comes…”I’ve answered your question.” Then I ask show me where” to which comes something like “it’s not up to me to find you the answer.’ Then I go back through the thread, past the beginning of the discussion and guess what :absolutely no answer to the question.” Sensible discussion is impossible.

This is someone who is denying that when Cadosch estimated the time that he went into the yard it might actually have been w or 3 or 4 or 5 minutes later. Can you believe this. Someone believes this to have been impossible. That I’m making things up to fit some kind of ‘theory.’ How can we discuss anything sensibly with this approach. It’s the same type of thinking that we get when certain people reject it when every single modern medical expert and every single medical text book and every single paper on the subject tells us that the methods that Dr Phillips used were unreliable ones for estimating ToD. But no, it can’t be, they know better than these experts, maybe the textbooks are forgeries? Maybe Dr Phillips had a TARDIS? Maybe he was a secret superhero? Or…maybe these experts know what they are talking about.

Tbh Doc there’s so much that’s debatable in this case but I’m totally sick and tired of wasting time trying desperately to convince some that 1+1=2 and that night follows day or that hippos can’t fly. What’s the point?

What you get from ''Fishy'' Herlock is evidence from the inquest that enables me to form an opinion as to Chapmans time of death . What we get from you time and time again is conjucture , circumstancial contradictory evidence , unproven theories , dodgy clocks , expert medical opinion that was incorrect without knowing for a fact it was

. I could go on, but its boring me . Funny how reliable and almost to the minute other Dr T.O.D estimates were, but Dr Phillipps was way out !

[FISHY1118]

I asked you a simple but specific question requiring a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer. As I predicted you failed to answer And as I predicted you then falsely claimed to have answered it. It’s the same old from you Fishy. A straight discussion is impossible with you.

As i said ,it was a stupid question that proves nothing in relation to the topic at hand , you only asked it to bait me for your own self benefit just so you can crow about how i cant answer a yes/no question . Its clever tactic youve been using for years , but i think you over do it at times .

[FISHY1118]

Why would he have been required to mention the boot-cutting? It wasn’t relevant. All that he felt was relevant was the fact that he went to the back door, could see all around the yard and there was no body there.

Why did he feel the need to invent the boot story at the inquest ? , he could see all around the yard from the position he was standing in the back door entrance looking to his right to check the lock .

[FISHY1118]

I am well aware of the "John Richardson" thread, and I recall no overwhelmong evidence of an earlier time of death. You cannot repost it, because it isn't there.

Thats simple not correct , there are muliple pieces of evidence provided during the inquest by Inspector Chandler and Dr Phillips that overwhelmingly point to an earlier T.O.D. Its there , its been reposted many times , it exist , your just chooseing to ignore it .

[FISHY1118]

[QUOTE=Doctored Whatsit;n855773][QUOTE=FISHY1118;n855770]



It has to be stressed that John Davies didnt see a clock either .

I really cannot see what the significance of this comment can possibly be. The exact time of his actions is not important, a few minutes either way makes no difference.

Im merely pointing out that just because Long didnt see the clock but heard the chime doesnt mean her time was wrong , you can suggest it was, but it doesnt detract from her statement. Just as John Davise statement, which if we are to believe him then same goes for Long . We have know way of knowing if Longs time given was able to be proven wrong by any other clock . Its just a guess.

[Tom_Wescott]

I’m trying to work out Annie’s movements in regard to Crossingham’s. So..


The Times


About 7.00 on Friday she turns up

She asks to be allowed into the kitchen

Donovan asks where she’s been

She tells him the infirmary

She stayed there until just before 2.00am Saturday

She leaves asking for her bed to be kept


The Telegraph


About 2.00-3.00 on Friday afternoon she turns up

She asks to be allowed into the kitchen

Donovan asks where she’s been

She tells him the infirmary

He next sees her at 1.30-1.45

She asks for her bed to be kept


Morning Advertiser


About 11.30pm on Friday she turns up

Donovan asks where she’s been

She tells him the infirmary

She leaves in the direction of Bishopsgate Street

At around 1.40 she returns

She asks for her bed to be keep before leaving


Evening News


About 2.00pm Friday she turns up

Donovan asks where she’s been

She tells him the infirmary

He next saw her around 1.30am Saturday

She asks for her bed to be kept

She leaves around 1.45-1.50am


Pall Mall Gazette


At about 11.30pm on Friday she turns up

Donovan asks where she’s has been

She tells him the infirmary

She leaves in the direction of Bishopsgate Street

1.40 she’s back asking for her bed to be kept

She leaves


Amelia Farmer saw her at 5.00 on Friday afternoon and then a few minutes later saying that she needed to get money for her lodgings

…..

That she left around 1.45 is no problem. Only 2 of the 5 has her leaving and returning but the have Donovan ‘not seeing her again until’ which I assume must be because she’d gone out. After all, was she really likely to have stayed in the kitchen for hours? So what time did she show up on Friday 7.00pm/ 2.00-3.00pm/ 11.30pm/

Thoughts?

I hate to muddy the waters, but there are a couple of points I'm uncertain about. First of all, it must be said that lodging house keepers and nightwatchmen are not generally to be trusted, and it's only on the word of Donovan and Brummie that we have Chapman leaving at/before 2am. Lodger Stevens (IIRC) saw Chapman with her bottles of medicine. Donovan was in possession of her medicine bottles after the murder and said he'd found them in her room, though he places this as occurring the week earlier. This has always bothered me. She went to the infirmary after leaving the house the week before. So how did she get the medicine before that? If she was ill the week earlier and retrieved medicine and lotion, why leave it behind at the house the week earlier? After Stevens saw her with the bottles he was under the impression that she had gone up to her 'room' on the second floor. Was she really ejected at 1:45 or was it later, when Brummie and Donovan exchanged notes and realized she hadn't paid for her bed?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Herlock Sholmes]

I am well aware of the "John Richardson" thread, and I recall no overwhelmong evidence of an earlier time of death. You cannot repost it, because it isn't there.

Exactly Doc. I get this every time with Fishy. This is why I joke about predicting whether it’s ‘ignore the question,’ ‘change the subject,’ ‘obfuscate,’ etc. I’ve lost count of the amount of times we have got to the point where out it comes…”I’ve answered your question.” Then I ask show me where” to which comes something like “it’s not up to me to find you the answer.’ Then I go back through the thread, past the beginning of the discussion and guess what :absolutely no answer to the question.” Sensible discussion is impossible.

This is someone who is denying that when Cadosch estimated the time that he went into the yard it might actually have been w or 3 or 4 or 5 minutes later. Can you believe this. Someone believes this to have been impossible. That I’m making things up to fit some kind of ‘theory.’ How can we discuss anything sensibly with this approach. It’s the same type of thinking that we get when certain people reject it when every single modern medical expert and every single medical text book and every single paper on the subject tells us that the methods that Dr Phillips used were unreliable ones for estimating ToD. But no, it can’t be, they know better than these experts, maybe the textbooks are forgeries? Maybe Dr Phillips had a TARDIS? Maybe he was a secret superhero? Or…maybe these experts know what they are talking about.

Tbh Doc there’s so much that’s debatable in this case but I’m totally sick and tired of wasting time trying desperately to convince some that 1+1=2 and that night follows day or that hippos can’t fly. What’s the point?