Chapman Timeline

[Herlock Sholmes]

I began this thread simply to flesh out a timeline for the chapman murder. I didn’t do it for an argument on unconnected topics. Chapman’s ToD is not relevant here and I didn’t raise the topic. It was raised in post#45 by Fishy whose hobby appears to find any way that he can to get into an argument with me. No matter the topic. It’s boring and it has now taken up half of this thread. Half a thread wasted just because one poster refuses to accept facts. That clocks can be poorly synchronised. That when people estimate the time that they can sometimes be wrong. That when people estimate periods of time they can be inaccurate. Half a thread sidetracked by one person (again) and all so that this person can deny something that is simply a fact. And then as ever he point blank refuses to answer a very simple question that requires nothing more than a yes or no answer.

I hope that we get no further time wasting comments and that any ToD related posts be posted on the Chapman’’s ToD thread. Thanks to those that make sensible posts that are relative to the topic at hand and also those that will honestly answer as well as ask questions.

[Abby Normal]

I also suggest that anyone is free to checkout my ''John Richardson'' thread, where in reality not fantasy, they will see evidence presented from the inquest that he missed seeing the body of Annie chapman lying dead, as he only went to the back door to check the lock of the cellar door then turned back inside and went to work.

incorrect. his evidence from the inquest testimony was that he also sat on the back step to mess with his shoe. which means if she was there her body and head would not only have been inches from his foot but also in his line of vision as he looked down. no way he misses that.

she wasnt there yet.

[GBinOz]

There’s none. He’s making it up. The overwhelming evidence is that she died at 5.30. A child could u detest and this stuff but sadly some can’t Doc.

On behalf of all the "children", I wish to lodge an objection and call nonsense.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Just to make it clear all - including you..the question that I asked was this..

Are you of the belief that all clocks and watches in the Victorian era were synchronised?

The answer is a YES or NO

Ive received no direct answer to that simple question.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I also suggest that anyone is free to checkout my ''John Richardson'' thread, where in reality not fantasy, they will see evidence presented from the inquest that he missed seeing the body of Annie chapman lying dead, as he only went to the back door to check the lock of the cellar door then turned back inside and went to work.

Invention.

Prove it

[Herlock Sholmes]

This should be her son William. Harriett Hardiman's husband died in 1880.

Cheers Fiver

[Herlock Sholmes]

Er... what "overwhelming inquest evidence"?

There’s none. He’s making it up. The overwhelming evidence is that she died at 5.30. A child could u detest and this stuff but sadly some can’t Doc.

[Fiver]

Third Draft

c6.05 - Harriett Hardiman, a cats meat saleswoman who occupies the ground floor front room is awakened by the noise from the passage. She sends her husband to see what was going on (she thought that there might have been a fire)

This should be her son William. Harriett Hardiman's husband died in 1880.

[Herlock Sholmes]

How does any of what you suggest change the fact what cadosh and long testified to ? Your inventing something that 'you dont know'' was wrong or right [.i.e clocks ] to try and suggest a different outcome /theory on T.OD !! . See how simple i made it for you ? You have your answer/s , so now you can stop ranting on how you think im ignoring you .


''This would leave him hearing the ‘no’ at 5.31 or 5.32. A minute or two after Long saw the couple out on the street.''

At 5.32 then .......

Its seems very unlikely the killer doing all the mutilations to Chapman in ''not shorter'' than 15 mins according to Dr Phillipps in daylight

Dr. Phillips: I think I can guide you by saying that I myself could not have performed all the injuries I saw on that woman, and effect them, even without a struggle, under a quarter of an hour.

Not relevant. A distraction from you which has no bearing on clocks. This is all that we are discussing…clocks and whether or not they can be poorly synchronised.



You bet its Relevant , You have Annie Chapman alive saying ''NO'' at your 5.32 am and then being Mutilated for the next 15mins to 5.47 am in the daylight


The ''Overwhelming inquest'' evidence suggest she was dead long befor that . Evidence trumps speculation theory everytime . Lets stick to that and leave the dodgy clock theories to the nutters

You haven’t answered as ever. Sorry but I’m not going to keep explaining simple stuff to you that everyone else can understand.

Your post is nonsense from start to finish. Go and discuss something else.

[Doctored Whatsit]

The ''Overwhelming inquest'' evidence suggest she was dead long befor that . Evidence trumps speculation theory everytime . Lets stick to that and leave the dodgy clock theories to the nutters

Er... what "overwhelming inquest evidence"?

[GBinOz]

Hi Fishy,

There was a time when Herlock took your position on clock times. But to his eternal credit he has accepted the evidence provided on clock times and has adjusted his opinion accordingly. Might I suggest that you reconsider your position on this topic.

Cheers, George

[FISHY1118]

[FISHY1118]

Can I again stress that I began this thread to discuss the Chapman Timeline until it was sidetracked. There is a Chapman ToD Thread where anyone is free to air their fantasies that John Richardson missed seeing a horribly mutilated corpse, with entrails strewn and with splayed legs in red and white stockings just a foot from his left boot if they wish until their hearts content.

I also suggest that anyone is free to checkout my ''John Richardson'' thread, where in reality not fantasy, they will see evidence presented from the inquest that he missed seeing the body of Annie chapman lying dead, as he only went to the back door to check the lock of the cellar door then turned back inside and went to work.

[FISHY1118]

So of the three options you chose to change the subject and obfuscate (and without answering the questions of course, but that’s standard practice)

You have proven that you really aren’t offering a considered opinion on the topic of clock synchronisation (which is the subject of this particular discussion) you are simply re-stating your opinion that Chapman died earlier. I have merely mentioned that the times are not an issue problem. I’m not suggesting as a FACT that Long saw the ripper. I’m suggesting as a FACT that nothing makes it impossible.

Your use of the phrase ‘dodgy clocks’ shows a thorough misunderstanding of the point that is being made.

…….

Are you of the belief that all clocks and watches in the Victorian era were synchronised?

It’s a perfectly simple yes or no question Fishy. It requires no specialist knowledge and it’s not a trick question. Any adult (and many children) could answer it without a problem and without hesitation. Why are you refusing to do so? One word….yes or no?

On with the options…..a) ignore, b) change the subject, c) say that you’ve already answered or d) try to twist the meaning of some part of the discussion?

I’ll guess at option b)…..possibly a)

How does any of what you suggest change the fact what cadosh and long testified to ? Your inventing something that 'you dont know'' was wrong or right [.i.e clocks ] to try and suggest a different outcome /theory on T.OD !! . See how simple i made it for you ? You have your answer/s , so now you can stop ranting on how you think im ignoring you .


''This would leave him hearing the ‘no’ at 5.31 or 5.32. A minute or two after Long saw the couple out on the street.''

At 5.32 then .......

Its seems very unlikely the killer doing all the mutilations to Chapman in ''not shorter'' than 15 mins according to Dr Phillipps in daylight

Dr. Phillips: I think I can guide you by saying that I myself could not have performed all the injuries I saw on that woman, and effect them, even without a struggle, under a quarter of an hour.

Not relevant. A distraction from you which has no bearing on clocks. This is all that we are discussing…clocks and whether or not they can be poorly synchronised.



You bet its Relevant , You have Annie Chapman alive saying ''NO'' at your 5.32 am and then being Mutilated for the next 15mins to 5.47 am in the daylight


The ''Overwhelming inquest'' evidence suggest she was dead long befor that . Evidence trumps speculation theory everytime . Lets stick to that and leave the dodgy clock theories to the nutters

[Herlock Sholmes]

Herlock, is your question meant for Fishy ONLY, or can Anyone join in?

MY answer is that, although Victorian clocks were NOT synchronized in the sense that we mean in the 21st Century (we have GPS and All That), there was an EFFORT to do so. Most people are going by the local church clock, although certain particular ones may have had priority with the populace. And they are setting THEIR clocks/watches by those clocks. The problem is that doing it this way often introduces errors in those secondary sources.

When Something happens, the officials (usually Whomever is what we would call the First Responders- coppers, medical men) are going by their watches. The coppers set their watches at the station so they are, in theory, synchronized with each other. How do the medical men set THEIR watches?

Anyone can answer CF.

Im not suggesting that no two clocks were ever the same or that people didn’t set their clocks/watches by others that they felt were more reliable. A few months ago when I had visitors in the house I asked everyone to check their phones for times as we were discussing this subject on here (a bit nerdy? Guilty as charged) I can’t recall the exact results but in 2025 using around 5 smart phones (maybe one iPhone) the time on my iPad, the wall clocks in the living room and kitchen plus the clock on the microwave we came up with a range of 8 minutes. So what I can never understand is when people express outrage when I suggest that this could happen in 1888. An allowance has to be made for poor synchronicity and errors of judgment when estimating times and periods of time.