Annie's last meal

[Fleetwood Mac]

It literally doesn't matter. I wasn't making any type of point about the food being "starchy", it's irrelevant frankly.

It's the point you were making to support your argument.

It turns out, one is easily digestible food and the other isn't.

For a reference point, see Dr Phillips' testimony. He referred to the potatoes in Mary's stomach as "potatoes" as opposed to "farinaceous food". Logically it follows that "farinaceous food" is in line with its meaning: flour-based.

In the event you no longer think it matters then you no longer have a point to support your original argument, which was: the food eaten was similar and therefore we can draw a conclusion on the digestive process timeframe.

There was a small amount of food in Kate's stomach at the time of her death, just like was a small amount of food in Annie's stomach.

Which is not what Dr Brown stated at the inquest/post-mortem. You've made this up.

[Herlock Sholmes]

You're quite right in that farinaceous is a Latin word for flour-based food.

At Mary's inquest/post-mortem, the medical people made no reference to 'farinaceous food'. The food was referred to as 'potatoes'.

A clear distinction made by medical men: farinaceous food versus potatoes.

It follows Mary ate potatoes, whereas Catherine didn't. Catherine more than likely ate high-fibre, wholewheat bread.

I, for one, am not going down the rabbit hole of arguing with you about precisely what type of food was found in Kate's stomach.

It literally doesn't matter. I wasn't making any type of point about the food being "starchy", it's irrelevant frankly.

There was a small amount of food in Kate's stomach at the time of her death, just like was a small amount of food in Annie's stomach.

That's just a fact. As far as I'm concerned, that food must have been eaten by Kate prior to 8.30pm and took five hours to be partly digested. There's nothing uncommon about that.

Equally, it's entirely possible, and easily within the expectations of medical science, that Annie ate a potato at 2am and it took 3.5 hours to be digested or partly digested, remaining in her stomach when she died.

Alternatively, if you prefer, both women ate some food about half an hour before they died. Perhaps the killer's MO was to offer his victims some food before he murdered them.

Either way, we learn nothing about the time of Annie's death from the little food found in her stomach, as is firmly demonstrated by the Eddowes comparison.

This game is absolutely over on this issue. The fat lady sang her song a long time ago.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The word "farinaceous" is derived from the Latin word farina, which means flour. Wheat flour is largely made up of starch and the term Farinaceous is now used for any food commodity high in starch.

"Now used".

At the Mary inquest/post-mortem, nobody referred to the potatoes found in her stomach as "farinaceous", it was "potatoes".


I've already quoted from the Collins English Dictionary as to the meaning of Farinaceous. No-one is interested in its derivation, just its meaning, and I'm not entering into an argument with you about something that can be resolved by checking in the dictionary

And hey ho did you miss me saying this in my last post:

"Frankly it doesn't matter what type of food it was. It was food which was evidently still there, in Kate's stomach, at least five hours after her last meal. Just like there was food in Annie's stomach potentially 3.5 hours after HER last meal."

In this whole discussion about the comparison between Kate and Annie I haven't once mentioned potatoes. It's irrelevant. A little food was found in both their stomachs. It merely proves what is already known to medical science that there are no set rates of digestion and no set rates for certain types of food. Plus it's already known that all types of food can take multiple hours to be digested, with different rates of digestion for different people.

Disingenuous again, Sherlock.

You posted: "partly digested food in the stomach".

This is not what Dr Brown stated. I'll remind you:

I removed the content of the stomach and placed it in a jar for further examination. There seemed very little in it in the way of food or fluid, but from the cut end partly digested farinaceous food escaped.

Yes, exactly, the partly digested starchy food escaped from the stomach when Dr Brown removed the stomach contents and placed them in a jar. That was the only food remaining in it. So there was partly digested food in the stomach at the time of Kate's death. It's not even controversial.

You are able to read English, aren't you?

This discussion is over. And it's game over for the stomach contents point

[Fleetwood Mac]

In your post 167 you said:
"...
Given this is a flour product it likely means bread, when considering the other flour-based options open to Catherine.

Poor Victorians ate wholewheat bread.

Wholewheat bread is high in fibre.

Food high in fibre stays in the stomach longer than most other foods.
..."

So you are the one claiming she at whole wheat bread at some point.

- Jeff

I've no idea what your point is in relation to the previous posts.

[JeffHamm]

I got this far.

Annie was seen eating potatoes by Timothy Donovan (inquest testimony).

Farinaceous, as stated by Dr Brown: from Latin farina "flour, meal".

Dr Brown didn't say "starchy". This has been invented by the Anglo-American society for message board invention and general frivolity: Jeff Hamm and Sherlock Holmes.

In your post 167 you said:
"...
Given this is a flour product it likely means bread, when considering the other flour-based options open to Catherine.

Poor Victorians ate wholewheat bread.

Wholewheat bread is high in fibre.

Food high in fibre stays in the stomach longer than most other foods.
..."

So you are the one claiming she at whole wheat bread at some point.

- Jeff

[Fleetwood Mac]

Oh, was it too much to read? Sorry.

From the Oxford English Dictionary
Farinaceous: adj - containing or resembling starch. Origin: LATIN farina 'flour'

So no, Dr. Brown didn't say "starchy", he used an adjective that means containing or resembling starch.

It's not an invention, it's a definition. You have invented the idea that it's origin is still it's meaning.

- Jeff

You're quite right in that farinaceous is a Latin word for flour-based food.

At Mary's inquest/post-mortem, the medical people made no reference to 'farinaceous food'. The food was referred to as 'potatoes'.

A clear distinction made by medical men: farinaceous food versus potatoes.

It follows Mary ate potatoes, whereas Catherine didn't. Catherine more than likely ate high-fibre, wholewheat bread.

[JeffHamm]

I got this far.

Annie was seen eating potatoes by Timothy Donovan (inquest testimony).

Farinaceous, as stated by Dr Brown: from Latin farina "flour, meal".

Dr Brown didn't say "starchy". This has been invented by the Anglo-American society for message board invention and general frivolity: Jeff Hamm and Sherlock Holmes.

Oh, was it too much to read? Sorry.

From the Oxford English Dictionary
Farinaceous: adj - containing or resembling starch. Origin: LATIN farina 'flour'

and here are the 4 synonyms for farinaceous as listed in thesaurus.com:
1) gritty
2) mealy
3) starch like
4) starchy

So no, Dr. Brown didn't say "starchy", he used an adjective that means containing or resembling starch, which is a synonym for starchy.

So, it's not an invention, it's a definition/synonym. You have invented the idea that its origin is still its meaning.

- Jeff

[Fleetwood Mac]

What are you twittering on about now?

The word "farinaceous" is derived from the Latin word farina, which means flour. Wheat flour is largely made up of starch and the term Farinaceous is now used for any food commodity high in starch.

"Now used".

At the Mary inquest/post-mortem, nobody referred to the potatoes found in her stomach as "farinaceous", it was "potatoes".

Where do you think the partly digested farinaceous food escaped from?

Disingenuous again, Sherlock.

You posted: "partly digested food in the stomach".

This is not what Dr Brown stated. I'll remind you:

I removed the content of the stomach and placed it in a jar for further examination. There seemed very little in it in the way of food or fluid, but from the cut end partly digested farinaceous food escaped.

[Herlock Sholmes]

You're being disingenuous again, Sherlock. This is what you posted:

Eddowes's stomach was empty save for a small amount of unidentifiable partly digested starchy food.

Dr Brown did not say there was partly digested food in the stomach.

Edited to add: nor did he say "starchy". You're making this up, yet again.

What are you twittering on about now? Where do you think the partly digested farinaceous food escaped from?

It came out of the cut end of Kate's stomach! And I’ve deduced this by the fact that the stomach is where food goes. Ask your Doctor, he’ll tell you.

And I know he didn't say "starchy", he said "farinaceous", as I've quoted on multiple occasions, but that's not a common word so I was using a more common word that people would understand while still conveying the same meaning.

From the Collins English Dictionary:farinaceous in British English

(ˌfærɪˈneɪʃəs )
ADJECTIVE
1.
consisting or made of starch, such as bread, macaroni, and potatoes
2.
having a mealy texture or appearance
3.
containing starch

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...sh/farinaceous


Frankly, it doesn't matter what type of food it was. It was food which was evidently still there, in Kate's stomach, at least five hours after her last meal. Just like there was food in Annie's stomach potentially 3.5 hours after HER last meal.

How utterly desperate are you to keep this long lost point going. The Annie’s Last Meal nonsense is absolutely dead. No amount of nitpicking and contortions can resuscitate it.

[Fleetwood Mac]

That means Annie ate some whole wheat bread

I got this far.

Annie was seen eating potatoes by Timothy Donovan (inquest testimony).

Farinaceous, as stated by Dr Brown: from Latin farina "flour, meal".

Dr Brown didn't say "starchy". This has been invented by the Anglo-American society for message board invention and general frivolity: Jeff Hamm and Sherlock Holmes.

[JeffHamm]

Methods in preparing pasta grain and farinaceous dishes (slideshare.net)

the word "farinaceous" is derived from the Latin word farina, which means flour. Wheat flour is largely made up of starch and the term Farinaceous is now used for any food commodity high in starch.

"Now used".

So you're saying that's a recent use of the word? Ok, let's go with your belief even if I don't agree with it. What follows from your belief.

That means Annie ate some whole wheat bread, according to you. That means, according to you, she ate at some point other than when seen eating the potatoes. That means, according to you, the evidence suggests she may have eaten after she left or before the potatoes, we don't know. But regardless of when you think she at the bread, she it at sometime other than the potatoes. And, according to you, the bread would remain in the stomach much longer, so it could be before or after the potatoes. Since we have no idea when she at the alleged bread, the stomach contents cannot provide us any guidance with regards to her ToD.

Personally, though, I don't think farinaceous was used only in reference to flour based foods in 1888, but if you can present something that proves me wrong that would be cool, even if it negates the utility of her stomach contents.

- Jeff

[Fleetwood Mac]

“There seemed very little in it in the way of food or fluid but from the cut end partly digested farinaceous food escaped.”

You're being disingenuous again, Sherlock. This is what you posted:

Eddowes's stomach was empty save for a small amount of unidentifiable partly digested starchy food.

Dr Brown did not say there was partly digested food in the stomach.

Edited to add: nor did he say "starchy". You're making this up, yet again.

[Herlock Sholmes]

He didn't say: "partly digested", nor did he say "starchy".

This is Sherlock putting two and two together and getting five again.

'Farinaceous' is derived from Latin and means flour.

Given this is a flour product it likely means bread, when considering the other flour-based options open to Catherine.

Poor Victorians ate wholewheat bread.

Wholewheat bread is high in fibre.

Food high in fibre stays in the stomach longer than most other foods.

And, what is 'the cut end of the stomach'?

“There seemed very little in it in the way of food or fluid but from the cut end partly digested farinaceous food escaped.”

Thanks for the English lesson. Jeff has already dealt with the meaning of farinaceous.

Dr Brown did indeed say "partly digested", it's right there in black and white, so that's another argument you're going to lose.

The cut end of the stomach was, obviously, the end of the stomach which the killer cut when mutilating the body.

Are we done now?

[Fleetwood Mac]

Farinaceous foods are starchy foods, so they may include things made from flour (like pasta), but they also include starchy veg as well (not just flour).

- Jeff

Methods in preparing pasta grain and farinaceous dishes (slideshare.net)

the word "farinaceous" is derived from the Latin word farina, which means flour. Wheat flour is largely made up of starch and the term Farinaceous is now used for any food commodity high in starch.

"Now used".

[JeffHamm]

He didn't say: "partly digested", nor did he say "starchy".

This is Sherlock putting two and two together and getting five again.

'Farinaceous' is derived from Latin and means flour.

Given this is a flour product it likely means bread, when considering the other flour-based options open to Catherine.

Poor Victorians ate wholewheat bread.

Wholewheat bread is high in fibre.

Food high in fibre stays in the stomach longer than most other foods.

And, what is 'the cut end of the stomach'?

Farinaceous foods are starchy foods, so they may include things made from flour (like pasta), but they also include starchy veg as well (not just flour).

- Jeff