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  • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

    sure its possible, just not likely. and the difference with hutch is he was spotted there.
    By who?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Chava View Post

      By who?
      sarah lewis
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Chava View Post

        What Observer said.
        This case is chockful of lies.
        And, yes. If his mother wants to know what the hell, he comes up with this story and then commences to embroider the hell out of it. He was there. (I was Ma! Honest!). He was there and he sat on the step. He was there and he sat on the step and he cut some leather off his boot with his knife. (Whoops!!). He was there and he sat on the steps and he cut some leather off his boot with a butter knife he used to cut up carrots for his pet rabbit. Reminds me of Hutchinson's peculiarly detailed description of The Fiend With Mary Kelly.

        I don't believe it and I don't believe him. If he was there at all he walked in, took a fast glance right to the cellar entrance and then left the premises. And the position of the door would prevent him seeing the body in that instance.
        I agree Chava, it seems the East End in the LVP was chockfull of fanciful witnesses !! Lewis and her top hatted bag man who tried to tice her down a back lane in Bethnal Green, and who she later saw with Kelly outside the Britannia public house. Hutchinsons Astrakhan man. Packer was full of BS, you get the idea.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post

          This is not a point on which there can possibly be any universal agreement. Some will say that we should always work from the idea that witnesses are truthful, others will agree with you and me that we are in every likelihood looking at a case where much of the testimony offered by amateur witnesses is highly questionable.

          Itīs about disagreeing, and disagree people will do.
          You said it ! It's par for the course where lone witnesses are concerned Fisherman, right across the board.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

            sarah lewis
            ... who said at her police interview that she could not describe a single thing about the loiterer, but then, at the inquest, she had a whole lot to say about him. And lo and behold, he seems to have looked just like the man Cox had described some time before Lewis went on stage. And although I have not checked, Cox gave her initial testimony on the 9:th, and so it may perhaps have made it into the papers too.

            Is it more than me who is mischiveous enough to sense a pattern here...?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

              sure its possible, just not likely. and the difference with hutch is he was spotted there.
              Lewis spotted someone opposite Millers Court on the night of the Kelly murder it wasn't necessarily Hutchinson. Even if it was, Lewis would only have seen him for a split second, across a darkened street. There was no need for him to come forward, yet he did. It's also debatable whether he knew of Lewis's testimony before he volunteered himself at Commercial Street Police Station.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Observer View Post

                Lewis spotted someone opposite Millers Court on the night of the Kelly murder it wasn't necessarily Hutchinson. Even if it was, Lewis would only have seen him for a split second, across a darkened street. There was no need for him to come forward, yet he did. It's also debatable whether he knew of Lewis's testimony before he volunteered himself at Commercial Street Police Station.
                ... and debatable whether he was there on the murder night or the night before. But that is for another thread.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                  sarah lewis
                  I thought you'd say that.

                  Actually no. Sarah Lewis did not spot Hutchinson. She saw a shortish stout man in a black wide-awake hat. She testifies at the inquest during the day of November 12th.

                  At 6.00 pm on November 12th, which is after the inquest, Hutchinson comes forward with his story. Hutchinson therefore might be said to corroborate Sarah Lewis. But she does not corroborate him. He could have heard about her evidence and come forward to claim he was the man she saw. But that doesn't mean he was. And he never mentions seeing her even though she walked straight past him...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by The Baron View Post
                    Now we are on the right way.

                    We hove lost a long time discussing the possibility of Richardson missing the body, when we are not even sure that he went there at first place, let alone sat on the steps.

                    He could have been the thief who stole his mother, didn't he say there were always people there and his mother denied ?! Maybe he used to tell his mother that to avoid her suspicions?!

                    The moment he met the rabbit, and everything went awry.



                    The Baron
                    Regards

                    Herlock




                    “...A yellow fog swirls past the window-pane
                    As night descends upon this fabled street:
                    A lonely hansom splashes through the rain,
                    The ghostly gas lamps fail at twenty feet.
                    Here, though the world explode, these two survive,
                    And it is always eighteen ninety-five.”

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Observer View Post

                      I agree Chava, it seems the East End in the LVP was chockfull of fanciful witnesses !! Lewis and her top hatted bag man who tried to tice her down a back lane in Bethnal Green, and who she later saw with Kelly outside the Britannia public house. Hutchinsons Astrakhan man. Packer was full of BS, you get the idea.
                      lewis never said she saw kelly with the bethnal green botherer. she said she saw him with a woman and besides she didnt even know mary kelly. lewis statement has no reason to be disbeleived, she is actually one of the witnesses who dosnt have any discrepencies.

                      if she wanted to be fanciful or wanted fifteen minutes of fame she could have come up with something much more...like saying she saw the bgb with kelly or it was him lurking outside her house.
                      "Is all that we see or seem
                      but a dream within a dream?"

                      -Edgar Allan Poe


                      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                      -Frederick G. Abberline

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fisherman View Post

                        ... who said at her police interview that she could not describe a single thing about the loiterer, but then, at the inquest, she had a whole lot to say about him. And lo and behold, he seems to have looked just like the man Cox had described some time before Lewis went on stage. And although I have not checked, Cox gave her initial testimony on the 9:th, and so it may perhaps have made it into the papers too.

                        Is it more than me who is mischiveous enough to sense a pattern here...?
                        lewis man looked just like blotchy? dont think so fish, nothing like him
                        "Is all that we see or seem
                        but a dream within a dream?"

                        -Edgar Allan Poe


                        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                        -Frederick G. Abberline

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Observer View Post

                          Lewis spotted someone opposite Millers Court on the night of the Kelly murder it wasn't necessarily Hutchinson. Even if it was, Lewis would only have seen him for a split second, across a darkened street. There was no need for him to come forward, yet he did. It's also debatable whether he knew of Lewis's testimony before he volunteered himself at Commercial Street Police Station.
                          lewis and hutch corroborate each other. she saw a man lurking outside kellys place as if waiting for someone to come out at the same time hutch said thats where and what he was doing.
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Chava View Post

                            I thought you'd say that.

                            Actually no. Sarah Lewis did not spot Hutchinson. She saw a shortish stout man in a black wide-awake hat. She testifies at the inquest during the day of November 12th.

                            At 6.00 pm on November 12th, which is after the inquest, Hutchinson comes forward with his story. Hutchinson therefore might be said to corroborate Sarah Lewis. But she does not corroborate him. He could have heard about her evidence and come forward to claim he was the man she saw. But that doesn't mean he was. And he never mentions seeing her even though she walked straight past him...
                            see my above post to observer. and were getting way off topic
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                              lewis and hutch corroborate each other. she saw a man lurking outside kellys place as if waiting for someone to come out at the same time hutch said thats where and what he was doing.
                              No they don't. Lewis's lurking man is not necessarily Hutchinson. If Hutchinson knew about Lewis's evidence he could have come forward to say he was that man. And if he was, why didn't he mention the woman who went right past him up Miller's Court? There is no mention of Lewis in Hutchinson's statement. And Lewis comes forward before Hutchinson does. So she does not corroborate him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                                see my above post to observer. and were getting way off topic
                                Yes we are. But I can't let Fake News go...

                                Comment

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