AC and TOD

[Observer]

Hi Lynn

Hello Mike. Excellent observation. How ironic if Jack never approached a single client!

I think a scenario could be devised for each of the C5, but with Kate's being the most difficult. I suppose one could claim Lawende did not see Kate, that she was already inside Mitre square at the time. On this scenario, perhaps Jack was hiding inside one of the empty houses.


The best.
LC

So who did Levy and Harris observe, with Catherine Eddowes, the Archbishop of Canterbury? In short Lawende's sighting was corroborated.

all the best

Observer

[lynn cates]

confession

Hello Mike. I just saw your previous post regarding Sir MM. Yes, it is quite curious that he could say that. Either:

1. He was talking out his, umm, hat.

or

2. He was sitting on information which no one else was privy too.

I have been chatting in the last month with a prominent ripperologist who is convinced that Sir MM received information from a certain vicar which contained, amongst other things, MJD's full confession. In this confession, a full list of victims was supplied. (Hence, Sir MM's certainty on "There were exactly 5 . . .")

Food for thought.

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

removed impediment

Hello Mike. No, I'm just pointing out the removal of a former impediment. I still don't see a fully dissociated ripper. But we need not discount even that, given a stealth status.

The best.
LC

Notice one consequence of all this is to eliminate the necessity of the ripper appearing normal and gaining women's confidence. And so those who were completely mentally dissociated need not, on that account, be eliminated as suspects.

The best.
LC

Hi Lynn,

You may be correct in your interpretation of whether obvious mental illness might fit a "pouncer", but thats really the opposite of what I was thinking. Men obvious with their mental health issues would have been watched by everyone they pass by, they would not hold down jobs, and they would not likely have a social life that one might consider normal. They would immediately have been the most watched people at night.

I think though that the evidence we have supports a profile of a man who doesnt draw attention. Someone who did work days....only night kills, weekends or holidays.....someone with people that see him in everyday life and think nothing of him in evil terms....because hes so "normal".

The men that we know were obviously deranged and did not hold down jobs and were institutionalized at some point for their illnesses would be so easy to find and watch....the ones that went about their business wouldnt be.

Cheers Lynn

Hello Mike. And hence Sir MM's dictum, no one ever saw the ripper.

The best.
LC

I had'nt thought how well the idea fit with the above Lynn,....and it is odd that he made that statement knowing that we had witnesses seeing Annie, Liz, Kate and Mary with someone near to the time of their deaths.

All the best Mate, thanks for pointing that out.

[lynn cates]

Sir MM

Hello Mike. And hence Sir MM's dictum, no one ever saw the ripper.

The best.
LC

Thanks for the support posts and comments folks.

When I mentioned that there was a privy with a broken lock in the Hanbury backyard, I should also have mentioned that there was a broken lock on the door to the office that was located above the unused stables, at the rear of Dutfields Yard.

2 broken locks do not a theory make, I know ....but they do show us that there were spots here and there that he could have waited in....I would imagine with the abandoned and empty housing in Mitre Square, a spot might have been secured there possibly. In the case of Dorset Street, we do have the alcove with the large dust bin in it opposite Marys windows....could someone hide behind that? Maybe.

Im not saying we should consider this for all the Canonicals, just seeing if any suggest that he could not have attacked from a place of hiding.

But one thing would be addressed if we did......we would not need to see any matching Ripper suspects by any of the witnesses to help tie the murders by the killer, because he wouldnt have been seen with any of them.

Best regards all

[lynn cates]

Gestalt switch

Hello Mike. Your dictum:

"just pointing out how that conjecture holds some valid concepts"

is sufficient.

This whole notion may provide a welcome Gestalt switch on the mechanics of Jack.

The best.
LC

[curious]

ambushcade

Actually, we've been discussing an ambush here for awhile now. or ambushcade as Tumblety called it.

that's the only possible explanation for Tumblety ever being a suspect in my opinion -- and apparently he was.

Even when reading Fisherman's explanation of Stride's murder (which seemed very reasonable to me) still in the back of my mind was the feeling that Stride had no idea anyone else was around.

That way, it's possible the Ripper was never even seen by a witness.

Curious

[richardnunweek]

Hi Michael,
The pounce factor I suggested on Casebook many years ago, but only in respect of Chapman, and Eddowes, but looking at it now ,I can see it may have been used in all the case that may have been contributed as Ripper murders.
Tabram may well have been seen entering George yard with a client, and the killer waited until he left, and entered the building finding Tabram sitting on the landing.
The killer could have followed Nichols entering Brady street, and closed on her near the stablegate in Bucks Row.
Chapman could have been observed entering the passage with the man Mrs Long described, and the killer made his move when her client returned to Hanbury street, finding Annie in the yard composing herself.
The killer may have made his move after BS had assaulted stride, and left the scene, or mayby BS was the killer, and walked towards Dutfields yard, when he observed Liz exit the yard, mayby she had just serviced a client, and the cashous were being used as a medicine [ if you get my meaning].
In Eddowes case, I have always believed she was rejecting a seamans advances , when Lawende and co saw her, and after she refused [ note hand on chest] she walked alone into Mitre square, and was grapped by the left hand and pulled into the darkness of the corner[ note the bruise of recent origin][ by someone either in the square watching the couple or close to church passage, that followed her in.
And last but not least, and I hate admitting that it may put Hutchinson in the frame, it is not impossible that he/someone waited until Astracan had left , before visiting the room, naturally I would have to place someone in CAPITALS.
So yes we could have the ambush type, a man that got his kicks on ambushing women of that class , who had just performed a sexual act..
Regards Richard,
I have never considered before that Stride had actually been in the yard with someone before she was attacked, it might fit the scenerio perfectly.

Hello Mike. Excellent observation. How ironic if Jack never approached a single client!

I think a scenario could be devised for each of the C5, but with Kate's being the most difficult. I suppose one could claim Lawende did not see Kate, that she was already inside Mitre square at the time. On this scenario, perhaps Jack was hiding inside one of the empty houses.

Notice one consequence of all this is to eliminate the necessity of the ripper appearing normal and gaining women's confidence. And so those who were completely mentally dissociated need not, on that account, be eliminated as suspects.

Hence, one of my difficulties with Nathan Kaminski would vanish.

The best.
LC

In the case of Kate Eddowes, Sailor Man may just be the man she meets that sends her into the square to meet the man who requested the meeting with her,...in which case there still could be a "pounce" factor ....although as I said, Im not promoting any theory like Jack didnt pick up his prey but ambushed them instead...just pointing out how that conjecture holds some valid concepts.

All the best LC

[lynn cates]

different approach

Hello Mike. Excellent observation. How ironic if Jack never approached a single client!

I think a scenario could be devised for each of the C5, but with Kate's being the most difficult. I suppose one could claim Lawende did not see Kate, that she was already inside Mitre square at the time. On this scenario, perhaps Jack was hiding inside one of the empty houses.

Notice one consequence of all this is to eliminate the necessity of the ripper appearing normal and gaining women's confidence. And so those who were completely mentally dissociated need not, on that account, be eliminated as suspects.

Hence, one of my difficulties with Nathan Kaminski would vanish.

The best.
LC

Hello Mike. Missed this one.

Excellent point. What if Jack were ALREADY in the yard? Same with Liz (stable); same with the rest.

This might imply a stealth Ripper--which is an altogether new approach, but entirely possible.

The best.
LC

Not that Im pitching any theories here Lynn....but the privy in the yard of number 29 Hanbury had a broken lock on it. Annie might have been taken by surprise when she remained in the yard after an encounter with a real client.

Im not so sure that a "stealth Ripper" as you put it isnt a warranted consideration in the first 2 murders actually. I could see in both cases where a pounce might have done the trick, ....say for example the killer follows Polly ducking in doorways when needed, or accessing lanes that will put him ahead of her.....until he can get close enough to "pounce"....she was drunk after all.....and in the case at Hanbury, he may have watched a client go in with her and only the client leaving....or he might have waited in the yard in the privy knowing prostitutes used that yard.

Ive often wondered if anything about Annies physiological makeup or medical history made her female reproductive organs unusual in anyway. If the woman herself was the target....or the uterus extracted from any woman was.

Cheers mate

[lynn cates]

stealth ripper

Hello Mike. Missed this one.

Excellent point. What if Jack were ALREADY in the yard? Same with Liz (stable); same with the rest.

This might imply a stealth Ripper--which is an altogether new approach, but entirely possible.

The best.
LC

Yes I think so.
But also, if she couldn't pay for her bed then what could she pay for. She is describbed as not being well fed so maybe it was merely desperation for a client and some food that kept her out so long.
As well as this didn't some of the lodging houses shut their doors after a certain point?

On the above....I think its also good to bear in mind Kat that we have testimony that on a few occasions people were found sleeping out in that backyard as I recall.

What time Annie entered that yard is a really good question, and whether she was possibly alone is another.

My best regards