Can we definitively conclude that Alice McKenzie was not killed by the Ripper?

[Fisherman]

Indeed, there have been many advances in criminal investigation since 1888, as well as medical, and, well, pretty much everything pertinent. We know more about how to interview witnesses to get more reliable information, we know more about what requires skill, we know more about how to preserve and investigate a crime scene, and all sorts of things. That's a result of the research and studies that have been done, and from which we've gleaned new ideas and insights. The police of the time did the best they could given the knowledge and technology available at the time.

- Jeff

Broadly speaking, I agree - the police did their best in relation to their resources and knowledge, apart from some lazy mistakes (like forgetting initially to speak to all the dwellers of Bucks Row).
Some think I am too hard on the police, but the fact of the matter is that 132 years from now, we will be laughed at for our shortcomings too. We are all prisoners of the era we live in. The good thing is that we do tend to get better as we move along.

[Fiver]

hi los
some of the drs and police thought she was, some didn't. today consensus is mixed. I think she probably was:
same victimology
same location
at night
throat cut
abdomen gashed
unsolved
and the clincher for me- she was found with her skirt hiked up like most of the rest.

From the amount of similarities, it seems probable that McKenzie's killer was the Ripper or someone attempting to imitate him. If McKenzie's killer was the Ripper, the massively reduced amount of mutilation might be a sign of illness or that the Ripper is no longer getting the same thrill that he got out of previous killings.

I do think that McKenzie's killer was not the Ripper based on one significant difference from the C5. The C5 (plus Tabram) were all killed when there was little or no moonlight. McKenzie was murdered the night of 16-17 July, 1889, which would have had a lot more moonlight than any of the C5 killings.

[Abby Normal]

From the amount of similarities, it seems probable that McKenzie's killer was the Ripper or someone attempting to imitate him. If McKenzie's killer was the Ripper, the massively reduced amount of mutilation might be a sign of illness or that the Ripper is no longer getting the same thrill that he got out of previous killings.

I do think that McKenzie's killer was not the Ripper based on one significant difference from the C5. The C5 (plus Tabram) were all killed when there was little or no moonlight. McKenzie was murdered the night of 16-17 July, 1889, which would have had a lot more moonlight than any of the C5 killings.

That conclusively rules out the ripper being a werewolf!

[Fisherman]

Where wolf? Ah, there wolf!

[Michael W Richards]

People have tried to use Moon Phases to explain the gaps over the years, and there are some full moon events. But realistically we aren't looking for a lunar loony.

[Fiver]

People have tried to use Moon Phases to explain the gaps over the years, and there are some full moon events. But realistically we aren't looking for a lunar loony.

There are no "full moon events" among the C5. There aren't even any half-moon events. The Ripper attacks occurred when there was 41%, 2%, 39%, and 27% of the
Moon's visible disk illuminated. That's not a sign of a "lunar loony", that's a sign that the Ripper preferred to attack when there was little or no moonlight.

[Michael W Richards]

There are no "full moon events" among the C5. There aren't even any half-moon events. The Ripper attacks occurred when there was 41%, 2%, 39%, and 27% of the
Moon's visible disk illuminated. That's not a sign of a "lunar loony", that's a sign that the Ripper preferred to attack when there was little or no moonlight.

Sorry, I was obviously aware that some people use the moon phases, like they also use numerology, and days of the week, and coincidental timings to explain these events, I had mistaken that first belief system was actually based on some full moon occurrences. As it seems, its actually based on nothing...like the other ones.

[Lewis C]

If one rejects the possibility that Mackenzie was a Ripper victim because there was too much moonlight when she was killed, then one should also conclude that Chapman was killed much earlier than 5;30 AM. There was a lot more sunlight at 5:30 the day Chapman was killed than there would be moonlight on a night with a full moon.

[The Rookie Detective]

Bump up for this excellent thread



RD

[Lewis C]

I made that last post back when I was leaning toward thinking that the early time of death for Chapman was more likely than later. Now that I think that the later time is much more likely, I very much doubt that the amount of moonlight is a reason to doubt that Mackenzie was a Ripper victim. One thing's for sure: SOMEONE killed her with that amount of moonlight. JtR was a risk taker, so why think that it would have been too much moonlight for him, but not too much for someone else.

[Michael W Richards]

August 31, 1888

Sept 8, 1888

Sept 30, 1888

Nov 8, 1888

I was a bit surprised that on all the "Ripper kill" dates the moon was 32% visibility or less. Which does make the Chapman murder less likely to have been done using just available moonlight....it was only 7% visibility that night.

[Tom_Wescott]

That is a very interesting piece of research, Michael.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fiver]

August 31, 1888

Sept 8, 1888

Sept 30, 1888

Nov 8, 1888

I was a bit surprised that on all the "Ripper kill" dates the moon was 32% visibility or less. Which does make the Chapman murder less likely to have been done using just available moonlight....it was only 7% visibility that night.

Your numbers vary slightly from something that's already been done on Cssebook. It appears the Ripper preferred nights with little moonlight. In Chapman's case, the murder was likely done between dawn and sunrise, which matches with the timing of the three witnesses.

[The Rookie Detective]

August 31, 1888

Sept 8, 1888

Sept 30, 1888

Nov 8, 1888

I was a bit surprised that on all the "Ripper kill" dates the moon was 32% visibility or less. Which does make the Chapman murder less likely to have been done using just available moonlight....it was only 7% visibility that night.

The Ripper choosing to kill on nights when the moon was not prominent; ergo, a Half Moon, 3 quarter, or Full Moon, may have been the Ripper's subtle way of trying to tell the world that he wasn't a "Lunatic."


RD

[John Wheat]

The Ripper choosing to kill on nights when the moon was not prominent; ergo, a Half Moon, 3 quarter, or Full Moon, may have been the Ripper's subtle way of trying to tell the world that he wasn't a "Lunatic."


RD

It could just be a coincidence.