Tumblety's Accent & Streeter

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Also, the baptismal records of the St Colmcilles Church in Town Park of Swords (County Dublin) have been checked.

Thanks Robert,
You've saved me from a lot of unnecessary research.
Siobhan

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Tumblety's marriage certificate?

Hi folks,
I've jsut discovered a great search tool at www.familysearch.org , that's if you haven't already heard of it. It was produced by Mormons in the US and uses baptismal and marriage certificates from Ireland and England (thoughout the 1800s) so that people can trace their family origins. This means you don't have to come to Dublin to do your research!
I did a check on Tumblety and there were oodles of them in Co Westmeath (a half hour's drive from Dublin) in Ireland. Apologies in advance if the information below has already been covered.
I found a Margaret Tumblety born in 1788 (Ireland) who was 82 years old in 1870 (US Census New York). This would mean she was 43 years old when she had her baby Francis. Is this possible? Or have I got the wrong mother entirely!

Also through the above website, I found a marriage license for a Francis Tumulty for 1848. The marriage took place in Pennsylvania. Could he have travelled that far only one year after arriving in the US? If it's our boy, then he would only have been 18 or 19 at the time.
Was he telling the truth when he said he married very young and ended up hating women because she was a prostitute? Unlikely, but here is the record of marriage anyway...

Groom's name: Francis Tumulty
Bride's Name: Riggio
Marriage Licence Year: 1848
Licence Number: 857087
Image Number: 00062
Digital Folder Number: 4144692
Source is from Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Marriages Indexes through www.familysearch.org

You will find the exact record if you click here:

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#surname=tumblety&p=recordResults&givenName=francis&searchType=partial&year=1831&toYear=1903

The entry is about half way down the first page.
Best,
Siobhan

[mklhawley]

Interesting find! If Francis arrived in the U.S. on June 21, 1847 and was in the 1850 census as a laborer in Rochester, NY, living with his brother Lawrence and mother Margaret (age 62), it would be cutting it close. It definately deserves research time.

By the way, it was rumored that the Church of LDS (Mormons) was going to open ALL of their genealogical data up to the public. Maybe they just did it?

Sincerely,

Mike




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Joe Chetcuti06-06-2007, 01:56 PM
Captain Streeter's first recollection of Tumblety was around 1848. The teenager would peddle porn books and board Streeter's boat on the canal in Rochester, New York.

The 1850 Federal Census listed Francis as a laborer, his brother Lawrence as a gardener, and his mother Margaret as a 62 year old Irish woman. Captain Streeter remembered the doctor's father, James, as an Irishman who headed his family on Sophia Street. James died on May 7, 1851 and the Rochester City Directory of 1851/52 listed Margaret as a widow. It also listed Francis as a peddler.

Mr. Edward Haywards of the U.S. State Department knew Tumblety during this time period and referred to Francis as a dirty, awkward, ignorant, uncared for, good-for-nothing boy who would run about the canal in Rochester. Haywards implied

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

If Francis arrived in the U.S. on June 21, 1847 and was in the 1850 census as a laborer in Rochester, NY, living with his brother Lawrence and mother Margaret (age 62),

Yes, but the birth date of his mum Margaret in 1788 (Ireland) would then be correct as record above made her 82 years old, twenty years after the 1850 cenus. So at least that record is correct. So she was 43 when she had her wee baby Francis.

Re Tumblety's marriage...has nobody else tried to check if he was telling the truth about getting wed. Surely they have...even though the widely held view seems to be that he only said that to cover up his homosexuality. The biggest danger on this site is spending time researching stuff that is already out there!

Re the Mormons records at the www.familysearch.org site. Whoever put the index together has gone to a tremendous amount of trouble getting records from Ireland. They deserve a lot of credit.

I've just found out that there were only 48 parishes in Dublin (city and county) the year FT was born. At least that's something. I thought there were hundreds. The Archdiocese of Dublin have just given me lots of leads by email which is a start. Hope to get back to y'all before I'm in a zimmer frame.
Best,

[mklhawley]

Yes Siobhan. I recently found another Dr. Tumblety marrying in 1858. It was near New York City and we know our Francis was in New York City in 1860. The only way this could be him is if he lied, but of course our Francis was never accused of lying

NY Times, April 20, 1858, Miss Joan Harkins Is Married in Chapel

PELHAM MANOR, N.Y., April 19 – Miss Joan Harkins daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Robert H. Harkins of New Rochelle and Oliverea, N.Y., married this afternoon to Dr. Joseph Peter Tumblety, son of Mrs. Peter Tumplety of Pelham and the late Mr. Tumblety. The Rev. Cathal Coulter, cousin of the bride, performed the ceremony in the chapel of the Roman Catholic Church of Our Lady of Perpetual Help. Miss Susan Ann Harkins was her sister’ maid of honor. The best man was Dr. Walter O’Donnell. A graduate of the Ursuline School, the bride studied also at Marymount College in Tarrytown and the Columbia University School of General Studies. Dr. Tumblety graduated from Fordham University and the New York Medical College. He served with the Army.


Happy hunting Siobhan!

Sincerely,

Mike

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

What was Tumblety's middle name?

Happy hunting Siobhan!

Hi Mike,
Didn't know about a Dr Tumblety marrying in 1858. Well got! Our man would have been in his late twenties at the time...

Can you (or somebody else out there) help me with my search in the Dublin baptismal archives?
What was Tumblety's middle name? I know it's on Casebook somewhere but I've been unable to find it. Was it Patrick or James?

Also, several posts on Casebook refer to the Ripper Writers website. Where is it located? Unless people are referring to the Dissertations section or the Newspaper archives on Casebook...I know where they are. Is it something outside of these two? If so, I wouldn't mind having a gander at it.

If you could help with the above, that would be great. Thanks.

Siobhán

[mklhawley]

Hi Siobhan,

On a number of Tumblety documents, his middle initial is J. There is a 1903 article giving Tumblety's first name as Joseph. My thought is his middle name is Joseph.

I will give you the Ripper Writers info privately.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Irish baptisms, marriages and burial records resource

Hi folks,
Scrap what I said earlier about records only being on microfilm. Thanks to the Dublin diocese and National Library of Ireland, I’ve accessed a fabulous site to find baptism, marriage and burial records in Ireland from the early 1700s to the early 1900s so this covers pre and post Famine timeframe.
It is a much more detailed resource than Griffith Valuations mentioned earlier in this thread.
Click here to access: http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy....s/location.jsp
Unfortunately, after years of hard work, the good people at Irish Genealogy have only managed to upload four counties online – these alone contain hundreds of thousands of records.

Counties so far covered are:
Carlow (CoI)
Cork & Ross (RC)
Dublin (CoI)
Dublin (Presby)
Dublin (RC)
Kerry (CoI)
Kerry (RC)
The good news, as you can see from the list above, is that the entries include Chuch of Ireland, Presbyterian and Roman Catholic forebears.

I looked for our man Tumblety, his mother, his father and so forth but didn’t come up with anything. Although I did find a Franciscum Tumblety’s baptism record in 1813 at St Andrew’s Church, Dublin. To view record, click here, it’s at the very top of the page.

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?name=tumb***&location=&dd=&mm=&yy=&submit=Search

Could this be the mysterious uncle with the same name mentioned in the Notes section of Riordan’s book? He apparently left Ireland for Liverpool and was never heard of again. Apologies if this information on the uncle is already in the public domain.

Perhaps one of you sleuths out there will be able to come up with more information than I did using the above resource. You can use wildcards if you are unsure of the spelling of a person’s name, for example, Tum*** and you can search by date only.

Best of luck and let me know if you find anything I couldn’t,

Siobhán