Tumblety's Accent & Streeter

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Irish baptisms, marriages and burial records resource

Hi folks,
Scrap what I said earlier about records only being on microfilm. Thanks to the Dublin diocese and National Library of Ireland, I’ve accessed a fabulous site to find baptism, marriage and burial records in Ireland from the early 1700s to the early 1900s so this covers pre and post Famine timeframe.
It is a much more detailed resource than Griffith Valuations mentioned earlier in this thread.
Click here to access: http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy....s/location.jsp
Unfortunately, after years of hard work, the good people at Irish Genealogy have only managed to upload four counties online – these alone contain hundreds of thousands of records.

Counties so far covered are:
Carlow (CoI)
Cork & Ross (RC)
Dublin (CoI)
Dublin (Presby)
Dublin (RC)
Kerry (CoI)
Kerry (RC)
The good news, as you can see from the list above, is that the entries include Chuch of Ireland, Presbyterian and Roman Catholic forebears.

I looked for our man Tumblety, his mother, his father and so forth but didn’t come up with anything. Although I did find a Franciscum Tumblety’s baptism record in 1813 at St Andrew’s Church, Dublin. To view record, click here, it’s at the very top of the page.
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy....&submit=Search

Could this be the mysterious uncle with the same name mentioned in the Notes section of Riordan’s book? He apparently left Ireland for Liverpool and was never heard of again. Apologies if this information on the uncle is already in the public domain.

Perhaps one of you sleuths out there will be able to come up with more information than I did using the above resource. You can use wildcards if you are unsure of the spelling of a person’s name, for example, Tum*** and you can search by date only.

Best of luck and let me know if you find anything I couldn’t,

Siobhán

[mklhawley]

Hi Siobhan,

On a number of Tumblety documents, his middle initial is J. There is a 1903 article giving Tumblety's first name as Joseph. My thought is his middle name is Joseph.

I will give you the Ripper Writers info privately.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

What was Tumblety's middle name?

Happy hunting Siobhan!

Hi Mike,
Didn't know about a Dr Tumblety marrying in 1858. Well got! Our man would have been in his late twenties at the time...

Can you (or somebody else out there) help me with my search in the Dublin baptismal archives?
What was Tumblety's middle name? I know it's on Casebook somewhere but I've been unable to find it. Was it Patrick or James?

Also, several posts on Casebook refer to the Ripper Writers website. Where is it located? Unless people are referring to the Dissertations section or the Newspaper archives on Casebook...I know where they are. Is it something outside of these two? If so, I wouldn't mind having a gander at it.

If you could help with the above, that would be great. Thanks.

Siobhán

[mklhawley]

Yes Siobhan. I recently found another Dr. Tumblety marrying in 1858. It was near New York City and we know our Francis was in New York City in 1860. The only way this could be him is if he lied, but of course our Francis was never accused of lying

NY Times, April 20, 1858, Miss Joan Harkins Is Married in Chapel

PELHAM MANOR, N.Y., April 19 – Miss Joan Harkins daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Robert H. Harkins of New Rochelle and Oliverea, N.Y., married this afternoon to Dr. Joseph Peter Tumblety, son of Mrs. Peter Tumplety of Pelham and the late Mr. Tumblety. The Rev. Cathal Coulter, cousin of the bride, performed the ceremony in the chapel of the Roman Catholic Church of Our Lady of Perpetual Help. Miss Susan Ann Harkins was her sister’ maid of honor. The best man was Dr. Walter O’Donnell. A graduate of the Ursuline School, the bride studied also at Marymount College in Tarrytown and the Columbia University School of General Studies. Dr. Tumblety graduated from Fordham University and the New York Medical College. He served with the Army.


Happy hunting Siobhan!

Sincerely,

Mike

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

If Francis arrived in the U.S. on June 21, 1847 and was in the 1850 census as a laborer in Rochester, NY, living with his brother Lawrence and mother Margaret (age 62),

Yes, but the birth date of his mum Margaret in 1788 (Ireland) would then be correct as record above made her 82 years old, twenty years after the 1850 cenus. So at least that record is correct. So she was 43 when she had her wee baby Francis.

Re Tumblety's marriage...has nobody else tried to check if he was telling the truth about getting wed. Surely they have...even though the widely held view seems to be that he only said that to cover up his homosexuality. The biggest danger on this site is spending time researching stuff that is already out there!

Re the Mormons records at the www.familysearch.org site. Whoever put the index together has gone to a tremendous amount of trouble getting records from Ireland. They deserve a lot of credit.

I've just found out that there were only 48 parishes in Dublin (city and county) the year FT was born. At least that's something. I thought there were hundreds. The Archdiocese of Dublin have just given me lots of leads by email which is a start. Hope to get back to y'all before I'm in a zimmer frame.
Best,

[mklhawley]

Interesting find! If Francis arrived in the U.S. on June 21, 1847 and was in the 1850 census as a laborer in Rochester, NY, living with his brother Lawrence and mother Margaret (age 62), it would be cutting it close. It definately deserves research time.

By the way, it was rumored that the Church of LDS (Mormons) was going to open ALL of their genealogical data up to the public. Maybe they just did it?

Sincerely,

Mike




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joe Chetcuti06-06-2007, 01:56 PM
Captain Streeter's first recollection of Tumblety was around 1848. The teenager would peddle porn books and board Streeter's boat on the canal in Rochester, New York.

The 1850 Federal Census listed Francis as a laborer, his brother Lawrence as a gardener, and his mother Margaret as a 62 year old Irish woman. Captain Streeter remembered the doctor's father, James, as an Irishman who headed his family on Sophia Street. James died on May 7, 1851 and the Rochester City Directory of 1851/52 listed Margaret as a widow. It also listed Francis as a peddler.

Mr. Edward Haywards of the U.S. State Department knew Tumblety during this time period and referred to Francis as a dirty, awkward, ignorant, uncared for, good-for-nothing boy who would run about the canal in Rochester. Haywards implied

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Tumblety's marriage certificate?

Hi folks,
I've jsut discovered a great search tool at www.familysearch.org , that's if you haven't already heard of it. It was produced by Mormons in the US and uses baptismal and marriage certificates from Ireland and England (thoughout the 1800s) so that people can trace their family origins. This means you don't have to come to Dublin to do your research!
I did a check on Tumblety and there were oodles of them in Co Westmeath (a half hour's drive from Dublin) in Ireland. Apologies in advance if the information below has already been covered.
I found a Margaret Tumblety born in 1788 (Ireland) who was 82 years old in 1870 (US Census New York). This would mean she was 43 years old when she had her baby Francis. Is this possible? Or have I got the wrong mother entirely!

Also through the above website, I found a marriage license for a Francis Tumulty for 1848. The marriage took place in Pennsylvania. Could he have travelled that far only one year after arriving in the US? If it's our boy, then he would only have been 18 or 19 at the time.
Was he telling the truth when he said he married very young and ended up hating women because she was a prostitute? Unlikely, but here is the record of marriage anyway...

Groom's name: Francis Tumulty
Bride's Name: Riggio
Marriage Licence Year: 1848
Licence Number: 857087
Image Number: 00062
Digital Folder Number: 4144692
Source is from Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, Marriages Indexes through www.familysearch.org

You will find the exact record if you click here:
http://pilot.familysearch.org/record...31&toYear=1903

The entry is about half way down the first page.
Best,
Siobhan

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Also, the baptismal records of the St Colmcilles Church in Town Park of Swords (County Dublin) have been checked.

Thanks Robert,
You've saved me from a lot of unnecessary research.
Siobhan

[Robert]

Hi all

To save people research time, Joe Chetcuti has asked me to refer you to posts 3 and 4 on this thread :



http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=2880

Also, the baptismal records of the St Colmcilles Church in Town Park of Swords (County Dublin) have been checked.

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Famines prior to 1847

Hi Mike,
Forgot to answer bit about Famines prior to 1847. Yes, there were numerous famines due the failure of the potato crop. There was one in 1841 and again in 1844. I know Wikipedia is not supposed to be a reliable source but if you key in "Irish Potato Famine AND wiki" into Google search, you will get a very good history of what happened and the dates of the various crop failures, deaths, emigration and all the rest of it.
Best,

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Awesome find Siobhan! It is interesting that Francis Tumblety's father and brother came to America just prior to the great famine of 1845. Was Ireland a place of famine just prior to this? Also, are there many resources for Swords Co between 1831 and 1847?

Mike

Hi Mike,
There are other resources such as "Poor House" records which are only available on microfilm here in Dublin. Unfortunately, the Poor House records for what is now the (26 counties) Republic of Ireland are a bit sparse. The records for (6 counties of) Northern Ireland are much more detailed.
Also there are Parish registers (Catholic families only) available as far back as the 1700s and covering the timeframe you mention above, but again, they are only available in the National Library of Ireland (Dublin) on microfilm. I've tracked down the Parish records (baptisms, marriages etc) for Swords (Microfilm No. P.6616) for the relevant timeframe but have yet to check through it. Interesting that it has three sixes in it! Will keep you posted if I find anything of interest. It is hundreds of pages long...
As for pre-Famine Ireland, it was a pretty dismal place if you were Catholic - little or no access to education or the professions, no right to own property but you could rent. No wonder so many left even before the Famine! You probably already know this but our Census of population records (which would have been very useful to track Tumblety clan) were destroyed during the Irish Civil War in early 1920s.
There are other resources online, www.irishorigins.com (but you have to pay for service) and I think there is a register of electors out there too. Only Catholic families with money (large incomes) were entitled to vote during the mid 1800s. Tumblety clan unlikely to be on it as they didn't seem to have a halfpenny between them when they lived here.
Best,
Siobhan

[mklhawley]

Hi folks,
I have done a check in Griffith's Valuations 1848 (National Library of Ireland) for the Tumblety family address and may have come up with something. Griffith Valuations contains the names and addresses of all landowners, landlords, householders and tenants (renting property) in Ireland etc starting in the year 1846.
In the year 1847 when FT's mother and sisters left Ireland with Francis on a famine ship (see reference in earlier post) I found a reference to a Francis Tumblety (1846-7) living in Swords Co Dublin.
The only mention FT ever made about his exact origins was that he was born near Dublin (Swords is near Dublin) in the year 1831.
As FT would have only been 17 years old at the time, I was puzzled by the fact that his name and not his father or older brothers are named as head of household on the address, but Riordan's book says that his father and older brother(s) probably left Ireland in 1844 therefore they would not have been listed in the household. Also, Catholic women were not allowed to have their name on the deeds, or lease of a property at this time. If there were no males in the household, then the closest male relative or male friend was obliged to have his name on the document as head of the household. This would explain why Francis, even though a teenager, would have been listed as the main man of the house (esp if dad and bros were living in USA since 1844).
The exact details of the record I found are as follows:
Tenant
Family Name : Tumblety
Forename : Francis
Landlord
Family Name: Long
Forename: John
Location
Place Name: Church Road
Townland: Town Parks
Union: Balrothery (Swords)
Barony: Nethercoss
County: Dublin
Printing date (of record): 1847

For anyone wanting to trace Irish ancestors who may have left Ireland around this time 1846/7, you can check them (and their location) at www.askaboutireland.ie then click on Griffith Valuations button to search by Family Name, County in Ireland etc. The service is free of charge.

Best,
Siobhan

Awesome find Siobhan! It is interesting that Francis Tumblety's father and brother came to America just prior to the great famine of 1845. Was Ireland a place of famine just prior to this? Also, are there many resources for Swords Co between 1831 and 1847?

Mike

[c.d.]

Found it!. Thanks, Carol.

c.d.

[Carol]

Thanks, Siobhan. Where is the Griffith Valuations button? I didn't see it.

c.d.

Hi c.d.
It's a little down the Home Page, right-hand side, under Related Services. Griffiths Valuation. Genealogy archive.
Carol

[c.d.]

Thanks, Siobhan. Where is the Griffith Valuations button? I didn't see it.

c.d.