Tumblety and the British Press

[m_w_r]

Hi,

I'm not really up to speed with Tumblety, but I thought that this, from the Western Mail, published in Cardiff, Wales, on 20 November 1890, was interesting.



Obviously, this report originated in the USA, and was picked up by the Western Mail in their foreign correspondence section - it's not a disclosure by Scotland Yard, or anyone close to it. But it is an example of Tumblety's name being linked with the Ripper crimes in the pages of a British newspaper prior to 1993.

Regards,

Mark

[mklhawley]

Hi,

I'm not really up to speed with Tumblety, but I thought that this, from the Western Mail, published in Cardiff, Wales, on 20 November 1890, was interesting.

[ATTACH]7784[/ATTACH]

Obviously, this report originated in the USA, and was picked up by the Western Mail in their foreign correspondence section - it's not a disclosure by Scotland Yard, or anyone close to it. But it is an example of Tumblety's name being linked with the Ripper crimes in the pages of a British newspaper prior to 1993.

Regards,

Mark

Awesome Mark! Previous arguments state that the British papers were completely silent about Tumblety (regardless of their source), while the U.S. papers were the ones pushing his suspect status (a great counter-argument to Tumblety). This demonstrates that they not only discussed Tumblety, they also discussed him as a JTR suspect, albeit only one tiny little article (but hey, if you find one cockroach, chances are there are dozens). I do have an honest question. If the British papers did indeed reject his suspect status, then why would this article be written at all?

Sincerely,

Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mark,

Nice find. Well done.

Maybe Littlechild read it.

Regards,

Simon

[m_w_r]

Nice find. Well done.

Maybe Littlechild read it.

Hi Simon,

Perhaps. But it's pretty obvious that he got his information about Tumblety, given in detail in his letter, out of the large dossier, held at Scotland Yard, to which he refers therein.

Regards,

Mark

[corey123]

Mark,

Wounderful find.

Yours truly

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Here's an [unnamed] Tumblety report from the Echo, Monday 3rd December 1888, the day after he arrived in New York and a week before the Old Bailey woke up to the fact he'd flown the coop.



It's a pound to a penny that Chief Inspector Littlechild did not let this profile influence his 1913 letter.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Hi All,

Here's an [unnamed] Tumblety report from the Echo, Monday 3rd December 1888, the day after he arrived in New York and a week before the Old Bailey woke up to the fact he'd flown the coop.

[ATTACH]14260[/ATTACH]

It's a pound to a penny that Chief Inspector Littlechild did not let this profile influence his 1913 letter.

Regards,

Simon

Brilliant find Simon. What intrigues me is that the British reporter had to not only get this story from a New York source, but he also made the decision not to mention Tumblety by name. The fact that US police were waiting for Tumblety on the New York docks suggests Scotland Yard knew Tumblety had skipped country prior to this Echo reporting. It certainly supports Rumbelow's point that Scotland Yard did not talk with reporters. It also supports the point that the only reason why anyone knew about Tumblety was because of a reporter stationed at Marlborough Street Court seeing Tumblety posting bail for gross indecency.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

Sorry, I don't quite understand your last point.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Hi Simon,

This is from the Marlborough Street court records: 'Date of Warrant on 14th', 'Remanded from last session (16th)', 'Bailed on the 16th', and finally 'Recognizant of Defendant Estreated'.

The first time Tumblety was in the U.S. papers being implicated in the murders was on the 18th, just two days after the 16th when he paid his bail. Tumblety was being transferred to Old Bailey by Hannay on the 14th for gross indecency, but was required to sit in jail until he was to see the judge at Old Bailey or until he paid his bail, which occurred on the 16th.

The date of the US reports on the 18th suggests a US reporter recognized Tumblety at Marlborough Street Court during his bail and release on the 16th. It must also have been the time the US reporter received additional info on Tumblety's Ripper connection.

Before I go any further, I'd like someone to find some evidence to refute this sequence of events, but it certainly fits the court documents and press reports.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Bridewell]

Marlborough Street

Hi Simon,

This is from the Marlborough Street court records: 'Date of Warrant on 14th', 'Remanded from last session (16th)', 'Bailed on the 16th', and finally 'Recognizant of Defendant Estreated'.

The first time Tumblety was in the U.S. papers being implicated in the murders was on the 18th, just two days after the 16th when he paid his bail. Tumblety was being transferred to Old Bailey by Hannay on the 14th for gross indecency, but was required to sit in jail until he was to see the judge at Old Bailey or until he paid his bail, which occurred on the 16th.

The date of the US reports on the 18th suggests a US reporter recognized Tumblety at Marlborough Street Court during his bail and release on the 16th. It must also have been the time the US reporter received additional info on Tumblety's Ripper connection.

Before I go any further, I'd like someone to find some evidence to refute this sequence of events, but it certainly fits the court documents and press reports.

Sincerely,

Mike

Hi, Mike,

I'd have to wonder why a US reporter would be at the Marlborough Street Magistrates' Court in the first place.

Regards, Bridewell.

[mklhawley]

Hi, Mike,

I'd have to wonder why a US reporter would be at the Marlborough Street Magistrates' Court in the first place.

Regards, Bridewell.

Hi Bridewell,

You don't have to wonder, since it actually happened. Joseph's Pulitzer's New York World did indeed have a London bureau. For years the head of this London bureau was an Irish-born journalist who consistently sent news reports to New York and Boston. If you want more info, let me know.

Sincerely,

Mike

[curious4]

Tumblety

Hello,

Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but isn't Tumblety or Kumblety named in the american/canadian article about Sir George Arthur?

Cheers,

C4
English papers, thought there was an english article where the shooting coat becomes an astrachan coat but can't find it.

[mklhawley]

Hello,

Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but isn't Tumblety or Kumblety named in the american/canadian article about Sir George Arthur?

Cheers,

C4
English papers, thought there was an english article where the shooting coat becomes an astrachan coat but can't find it.

Hi C4,

Here's one of them:

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/san_francisco_chronicle/18881118.html

The Canadian article does not mention Tumblety, though:

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/ottawa_free_press/ofp881121.html?printer=true

...nor the NY World:

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/new_york_world/18881118.html

Sincerely,

Mike

[curious4]

Tumblety

Hello Mike,

Yes, found it again just before you posted. Interested me because it predates the Littlechild letter and that was supposed to mention a completely new suspect. Nothing new under the sun, I suppose! Also interested in Sir George - he should be studied in more detail, I think. Not that I think he dunnit, but the shooting coat fits in with my idea of how Jack transported his trophies. Also wonder if the arrested man could have been higher up the social scale and gave George's name to protect his own.

Regards,
C4

[mklhawley]

Hello Mike,

Yes, found it again just before you posted. Interested me because it predates the Littlechild letter and that was supposed to mention a completely new suspect. Nothing new under the sun, I suppose! Also interested in Sir George - he should be studied in more detail, I think. Not that I think he dunnit, but the shooting coat fits in with my idea of how Jack transported his trophies. Also wonder if the arrested man could have been higher up the social scale and gave George's name to protect his own.

Regards,
C4

Hi C4,

Among a million other areas, I believe Simon has researched Sir George a bit.

Mike