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  • Tumblety and the British Press

    Hi,

    I'm not really up to speed with Tumblety, but I thought that this, from the Western Mail, published in Cardiff, Wales, on 20 November 1890, was interesting.

    Click image for larger version

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    Obviously, this report originated in the USA, and was picked up by the Western Mail in their foreign correspondence section - it's not a disclosure by Scotland Yard, or anyone close to it. But it is an example of Tumblety's name being linked with the Ripper crimes in the pages of a British newspaper prior to 1993.

    Regards,

    Mark

  • #2
    Originally posted by m_w_r View Post
    Hi,

    I'm not really up to speed with Tumblety, but I thought that this, from the Western Mail, published in Cardiff, Wales, on 20 November 1890, was interesting.

    [ATTACH]7784[/ATTACH]

    Obviously, this report originated in the USA, and was picked up by the Western Mail in their foreign correspondence section - it's not a disclosure by Scotland Yard, or anyone close to it. But it is an example of Tumblety's name being linked with the Ripper crimes in the pages of a British newspaper prior to 1993.

    Regards,

    Mark
    Awesome Mark! Previous arguments state that the British papers were completely silent about Tumblety (regardless of their source), while the U.S. papers were the ones pushing his suspect status (a great counter-argument to Tumblety). This demonstrates that they not only discussed Tumblety, they also discussed him as a JTR suspect, albeit only one tiny little article (but hey, if you find one cockroach, chances are there are dozens). I do have an honest question. If the British papers did indeed reject his suspect status, then why would this article be written at all?

    Sincerely,

    Mike
    The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
    http://www.michaelLhawley.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Mark,

      Nice find. Well done.

      Maybe Littlechild read it.

      Regards,

      Simon
      Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
        Nice find. Well done.

        Maybe Littlechild read it.
        Hi Simon,

        Perhaps. But it's pretty obvious that he got his information about Tumblety, given in detail in his letter, out of the large dossier, held at Scotland Yard, to which he refers therein.

        Regards,

        Mark

        Comment


        • #5
          Mark,

          Wounderful find.

          Yours truly
          Washington Irving:

          "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

          Stratford-on-Avon

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi All,

            Here's an [unnamed] Tumblety report from the Echo, Monday 3rd December 1888, the day after he arrived in New York and a week before the Old Bailey woke up to the fact he'd flown the coop.

            Click image for larger version

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            It's a pound to a penny that Chief Inspector Littlechild did not let this profile influence his 1913 letter.

            Regards,

            Simon
            Last edited by Simon Wood; 07-13-2012, 01:14 AM. Reason: spolling mistooks
            Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
              Hi All,

              Here's an [unnamed] Tumblety report from the Echo, Monday 3rd December 1888, the day after he arrived in New York and a week before the Old Bailey woke up to the fact he'd flown the coop.

              [ATTACH]14260[/ATTACH]

              It's a pound to a penny that Chief Inspector Littlechild did not let this profile influence his 1913 letter.

              Regards,

              Simon
              Brilliant find Simon. What intrigues me is that the British reporter had to not only get this story from a New York source, but he also made the decision not to mention Tumblety by name. The fact that US police were waiting for Tumblety on the New York docks suggests Scotland Yard knew Tumblety had skipped country prior to this Echo reporting. It certainly supports Rumbelow's point that Scotland Yard did not talk with reporters. It also supports the point that the only reason why anyone knew about Tumblety was because of a reporter stationed at Marlborough Street Court seeing Tumblety posting bail for gross indecency.

              Sincerely,

              Mike
              The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
              http://www.michaelLhawley.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Mike,

                Sorry, I don't quite understand your last point.

                Regards,

                Simon
                Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Simon,

                  This is from the Marlborough Street court records: 'Date of Warrant on 14th', 'Remanded from last session (16th)', 'Bailed on the 16th', and finally 'Recognizant of Defendant Estreated'.

                  The first time Tumblety was in the U.S. papers being implicated in the murders was on the 18th, just two days after the 16th when he paid his bail. Tumblety was being transferred to Old Bailey by Hannay on the 14th for gross indecency, but was required to sit in jail until he was to see the judge at Old Bailey or until he paid his bail, which occurred on the 16th.

                  The date of the US reports on the 18th suggests a US reporter recognized Tumblety at Marlborough Street Court during his bail and release on the 16th. It must also have been the time the US reporter received additional info on Tumblety's Ripper connection.

                  Before I go any further, I'd like someone to find some evidence to refute this sequence of events, but it certainly fits the court documents and press reports.

                  Sincerely,

                  Mike
                  The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
                  http://www.michaelLhawley.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Marlborough Street

                    Originally posted by mklhawley View Post
                    Hi Simon,

                    This is from the Marlborough Street court records: 'Date of Warrant on 14th', 'Remanded from last session (16th)', 'Bailed on the 16th', and finally 'Recognizant of Defendant Estreated'.

                    The first time Tumblety was in the U.S. papers being implicated in the murders was on the 18th, just two days after the 16th when he paid his bail. Tumblety was being transferred to Old Bailey by Hannay on the 14th for gross indecency, but was required to sit in jail until he was to see the judge at Old Bailey or until he paid his bail, which occurred on the 16th.

                    The date of the US reports on the 18th suggests a US reporter recognized Tumblety at Marlborough Street Court during his bail and release on the 16th. It must also have been the time the US reporter received additional info on Tumblety's Ripper connection.

                    Before I go any further, I'd like someone to find some evidence to refute this sequence of events, but it certainly fits the court documents and press reports.

                    Sincerely,

                    Mike
                    Hi, Mike,

                    I'd have to wonder why a US reporter would be at the Marlborough Street Magistrates' Court in the first place.

                    Regards, Bridewell.
                    "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
                      Hi, Mike,

                      I'd have to wonder why a US reporter would be at the Marlborough Street Magistrates' Court in the first place.

                      Regards, Bridewell.
                      Hi Bridewell,

                      You don't have to wonder, since it actually happened. Joseph's Pulitzer's New York World did indeed have a London bureau. For years the head of this London bureau was an Irish-born journalist who consistently sent news reports to New York and Boston. If you want more info, let me know.

                      Sincerely,

                      Mike
                      The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
                      http://www.michaelLhawley.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tumblety

                        Hello,

                        Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but isn't Tumblety or Kumblety named in the american/canadian article about Sir George Arthur?

                        Cheers,

                        C4
                        English papers, thought there was an english article where the shooting coat becomes an astrachan coat but can't find it.
                        Last edited by curious4; 07-13-2012, 06:42 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by curious4 View Post
                          Hello,

                          Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but isn't Tumblety or Kumblety named in the american/canadian article about Sir George Arthur?

                          Cheers,

                          C4
                          English papers, thought there was an english article where the shooting coat becomes an astrachan coat but can't find it.
                          Hi C4,

                          Here's one of them:

                          http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18881118.html


                          The Canadian article does not mention Tumblety, though:

                          http://www.casebook.org/press_report...l?printer=true


                          ...nor the NY World:

                          http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18881118.html

                          Sincerely,

                          Mike
                          The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
                          http://www.michaelLhawley.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Tumblety

                            Hello Mike,

                            Yes, found it again just before you posted. Interested me because it predates the Littlechild letter and that was supposed to mention a completely new suspect. Nothing new under the sun, I suppose! Also interested in Sir George - he should be studied in more detail, I think. Not that I think he dunnit, but the shooting coat fits in with my idea of how Jack transported his trophies. Also wonder if the arrested man could have been higher up the social scale and gave George's name to protect his own.

                            Regards,
                            C4

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by curious4 View Post
                              Hello Mike,

                              Yes, found it again just before you posted. Interested me because it predates the Littlechild letter and that was supposed to mention a completely new suspect. Nothing new under the sun, I suppose! Also interested in Sir George - he should be studied in more detail, I think. Not that I think he dunnit, but the shooting coat fits in with my idea of how Jack transported his trophies. Also wonder if the arrested man could have been higher up the social scale and gave George's name to protect his own.

                              Regards,
                              C4
                              Hi C4,

                              Among a million other areas, I believe Simon has researched Sir George a bit.

                              Mike
                              The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
                              http://www.michaelLhawley.com

                              Comment

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