Francis Tumblety's Gravesite on Video

[mklhawley]

So, the From Hell letter has been missing since the 1950s, possibly from a retired Scotland Yard Official. Here's the plan, talk this person into returning it, do a DNA test on the envelope (if there was one), then exhume Tumblety's body for a DNA sample (and any other suspects), and then close the case. What do you think?

Mike

[corey123]

John H

It seems You belive that because someone is a "major suspect" means that gives them more "qualification" to be Jack The Ripper. If you all want my honest opinion on the ripper suspects, NONE OF THEM ARE FIT TO BE THE RIPPER. Period. I once belived Tumblety to be the ripper, UNTILL I looked more into it. Mike you are correct, ripperology is an amazing field but be prepared to have your views effected. Now these are just my opinions of coarse.

Yours truly

[corey123]

And again mike

I truly doubt the DNA evidence of any suspect that remains would work. It would have been exposed to too many contaminents and it isnt likely to contain enough of it to make any psoitive readings.

yours truly

[mklhawley]

Corey,

Actually, I had no idea he was a major suspect since I am a new-be, but I do agree wishful thinking creeps into belief. Much of my own research is determining the difference between believing (decision-making from the limbic system) and knowing (decision-making from the cerebral cortex). As I pointed out in an earlier post, confirmation bias (favoring evidence to the affirmative and ignoring evidence to the contrary) affects even the most objective scientist. Ripperology is affecting me exactly as you have predicted. Thanks Corey.

...and the DNA thoughts are absolutely wishful thinking.

Sincerely,

Mike

[corey123]

Yes ripperology is indeed a fasinating and mind altering field. You may come in standing fermly on a subject and come out thinking "How in the world did I think that".(e.g. I previously thought the 'dear boss' to be authintic. but upon comparing them to bullings writings I have came to a change of thought.)

yours truly

[Jonathan H]

To Corey

My point of view is somewhat different.

On the one hand, I think the Ripper's identity as an absolute certainty was unknown then, and will be forever so.

On the other hand, the best we can do is examine the police officials who ended up certain about a particular suspect, or strongly leaning towards a suspect, and try and figure out why, how and when?

I think that the knot bequeathed to us is so hard to untangle not because nobody is a good fit to be the Fiend, but rather the English gentleman, the American Quack and the Polish Jew are a trio of excellent suspects -- each with significant drawbacks. But the drawbacks may have been known to the same relevant policemen at the time and yet they -- to varying degrees -- committed themselves to 'their' Ripper.

Or, to put it even simpler, I favour Montie Druitt as the Ripper but he was discovered two years too late by Scotland Yard, and both this embarrassing factor, and his identity, had to be veiled by Macnaghten to avoid a libel suit.

[corey123]

John

Correct me if Im wrong but you look up to macnaughten dont you? Like as a hero sort of? Maybe thats a reason you belive druitt, I personally( if I had to pick) would probally belive Barnett to be the ripper.

yours truly

P.s. I idalize Frederick Abberline in the same light. Both melville and frederick were outstanding policemen of their time. I idalize all police constables,detectives,inspecters,and commisioners who worked for the met and City police forces during the 'ripper scare'.

[Jonathan H]

Yes, I adore him ...

That's my declared bias. I WANT Mac to have caught the Ripper, albeit posthumously.

It is for others to judge whether that bias [practically an infatuation!] so voids my critical faculties that I have come up with a Ripper theory which is mostly based on wishful-thinking and flights of imagination -- exactly what I criticize other people of doing?

[corey123]

Haha

I wish the ripper had been caught period, to me it really doesnt matter who caught him. But yes I understand you fasination with Macnaughten, Im the same way with Abberline(to an extent).

yours truly

[corey123]

Mike

Thought you might like this(if you havent seen it befor) its one of the reports on Carrie Brown.


yours truly

[mklhawley]

Like it is an understatement! Inspecting original documents is the only way to go. Truly appreciated Corey!

Sincerely,

Mike

[corey123]

No problem

Its no biggie mike. Hope you find it useful.

yours truly

p.s. I remember viewing Tumbletys handwriting somewhere, but the problem is I dont remember where I saw it???

[jonwilson]

Jonathan, I believe the police back then were clueless. They were most likely looking for the wrong kind of person. Jack to me was normal looking man, acted normal until the last moment with his victims. He didn't even have to do much. His victims lead him to their deaths. Jack was indeed clever in my opinion. It seems back then that any known lunatic was being accused of being the ripper. I believe the police wanted really bad to find the identity of the ripper, so they start saying this guy or that guy is the ripper. They had no evidence or proof on any suspects they might have claimed was Jack. They were searching for a lunatic foaming at the mouth. Back then, they didn't have any of the tools we have today at catching serial killers. Kosminski, Driutt, etc are all laughable as suspects in my opinion. I also believe Jack was an unknown and I believe his identity will never be solved. Jack killed at the right time. In a time where police probably knew next to nothing about serial killers.

[corey123]

Jon

I have to go against that statment, the reason the ripper was never caught was caused by certain points.
1) they were as you said on the wrong lead.
2) they didnt have ALL of the technologies they have today(they still had some of them)

They did have good reasons to suspect those indaviduals for being the ripper, I think you need to read the profiles of the suspects befor you jump to conclusions.

I also belive the police did all they could, the WERE highly intelegent. If they were so dumb then why cant police in our age find the ripper? They are just as good.

As for technoliges, fingerprinting was first used by the Scotland Yard in 1900.

Another reason I belive the ripper was never apprehended was because he was highly intellegent(I belive to an extent not necissarily grammer or mathamatics but logic and maybe some anatomical)

If you take a close look into the suspects, you will find those as druitt and barnett who have never hand any criminal past(unless you count Barnetts charge of theft)

some thoughts to ponder.
yours truly

[corey123]

Police force

Heres the recorded police force for Met and City police.

Source: Dickens's Dictionary of London 1888 (ISBN 1-873590-04-0).

City of London Police Force
The City Police Force comprises 1 Commissioner, 1 Chief Superintendent, 1 Superintendent, 14 Inspectors, 92 Sergeants, and 781 Constables. The following is a list of divisions, with addresses of stations:-

Cripplegate ~ More Lane
Snow Hill ~ Snow Hill
Bridwell Place ~ Bridwell Place
Cloak Lane ~ Queen Street
Tower Street ~ Seething Lane
Bishopgate ~ Bishopgate Street



Metropolitan Police Force
The following is the Divisional distribution of the Metropolitan Police Force, with names of Superintendents and strength of Divisions. Total strength of all ranks, including superintendents 14,106:-

C.O. or Commissioners' Office.
Charles H. Cutbush, Supt. Executive Branch;
Edward Ware, Supt. Public Carriage Branch;
John Shore, Supt. Criminal Investigations Dept.;
Inspectors 43, Sergeants 63, Constables 120. Total 229.

A or Whitehall Division.
King Street, Westminster.
Joseph Henry Dunlap, Supt., also Charles Fraser;
Inspectors, 38; Sergeants 60; Constables 835. Total 935.

B or Chelsea Division.
Walton Street, Brompton.
Chas. W. Sheppard, Supt.;
Inspectors 22; Sergeants 52; Constables 560. Total 635.

C or St James's Division.
Little Vine Street, Piccadilly.
William G. Hume, Supt.;
Inspectors 17; Sergeants 37; Constables 386. Total 441.

D or Marylebone Division.
Marylebone Lane.
George Draper, Supt.;
Inspectors 23; Sergeants 40; Constables 467. Total 531.

E or Holborn Division.
Bow Street.
Rich. W. Steggles, Supt.;
Inspectors 17; Sergeants 50; Constables 447. Total 515.

F or Paddington Division.
Paddington Green.
Philip Giles, Supt.;
Inspectors 21; Sergeants 41; Constables 377. Total 440.
G or Finsbury Division.
King's Cross Road.
Charles Hunt, Supt.;
Inspectors 23; Sergeants 46; Constables 480. Total 550.

H or Whitechapel Division.
Leman Street.
Thos. Arnold, Supt.;
Inspectors 30; Sergeants 44; Constables 473. Total 548.

J or Bethnal Green Division.
Bethnal Green Road.
James Keating, Supt.;
Inspectors 38; Sergeants 56; Constables 522. Total 617.

K or Bow Division.
Bow Road.
George Steed, Supt.;
Inspectors 48; Sergeants 71; Constables 619. Total 739.

L or Lambeth Division.
Lower Kennington Lane.
James Brannan, Supt.;
Inspectors 22; Sergeants 35; Constables 346. Total 404.

M or Southwark Division.
Blackman Street.
Denis Neylan, Supt.;
Inspectors 28; Sergeants 43; Constables 429. Total 501.

N or Islington Division.
Stoke Newington High Street.
William J. Sherlock, Supt.;
Inspectors 37; Sergeants 66; Constables 536. Total 640.

P or Camberwell Division.
High Street, Peckham.
Thomas Butt, Supt.;
Inspectors 44; Sergeants 68; Constables 599. Total 712.

R or Greenwich Division.
Blackheath Road, Greenwich.
Christopher McHugo, Supt.;
Inspectors 38; Sergeants 71; Constables 476. Total 586.

S or Hampstead Division.
Albany Street, Regent's Park.
William Harris, Supt.;
Inspectors 42; Sergeants 80; Constables 613. Total 736.

T or Hammersmith Division.
Broadway, Hammersmith.
Wm. Fisher, Supt.;
Inspectors 52; Sergeants 75; Constables 623. Total 751.

V or Wandsworth Division.
West Hill, Wandsworth.
Davis Saines, Supt.;
Inspectors 36; Sergeants 59; Constables 561. Total 657.

W or Clapham Division.
Brixton Road.
Stephen Lucas, Supt.;
Inspectors 39; Sergeants 72; Constables 571. Total 683.

X or Kilburn Division.
Carlton Terrace, Harrow Road.
Frederick Beard, Supt.;
Inspectors 40; Sergeants 53; Constables 469. Total 563.

Y or Highgate Division.
Kentish Town Road.
William J. Huntley, Supt.;
Inspectors 46; Sergeants 73; Constables 480. Total 727.

Thames Division.
Wapping, near the river.
George Skeats, Supt,;
Inspectors 49; Sergeants 4; Constables 147. Total 201.

Woolwich Dockyard Division.
Woolwich Arsenal.
Thomas E. Hindes, Supt.;
Inspectors 8; Sergeants 25; Constables 140. Total 174.

Portsmouth Dockyard Division.
Portsmouth.
Wm. Ventham, Supt.;
Inspectors 8; Sergeants 29; Constables 128. Total 155.

Chatham Dockyard Division.
Chatham.
Geo. Godfrey, Supt.;
Inspectors 6; Sergeants 24; Constables 157. Total 188.

Pembroke Dockyard Divison.
No Superintendent.
Inspectors 2; Sergeants 4; Constables 28. Total 34.

So they had a pretty large number of officers on the streets in 1888, so this also adds to the rippers cunning and normality