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with the whitechaple killings that period shouldnt be a basis for the whole victorian era in london. serial murders were actually quite uncommon. These accurences were based as the first serial murders.
yours truly
yours truly
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Last edited by corey123; 12-01-2009, 05:15 AM.Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-Avon -
and also why would tumblety chang his handwriting styles and spelling so profoundly?I know tumblety is interesting but in my mind(and many others)he is not a viable suspect in this case. And most of the police constables at the time were very young.unless you count Inspector Abberline,Inspecter Dew,ect.Last edited by corey123; 12-01-2009, 05:16 AM.Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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And may I add one more factor. Being 'out of the ordinary' in those days IS a drawback, because the police at that time were searching for those who DIDNT blend in with the society. Besides ted bundey DIDNT want attention. He murdered for years on end without being caught, only due to being thought as 'too' normal to be a serial killer(charels manson on the other hand isnt quite a serial killer more like a continuous killier)
yours trulyLast edited by corey123; 12-01-2009, 05:17 AM.Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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So, what's your thoughts on the Batty St - "American Lodger" connection?The Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
http://www.michaelLhawley.comComment
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well
Honestly I havent done much research in that area lol.Is that another murder or another suspect?
yours trulyWashington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Oh yea and I just veiwed the mortuary photos of Carrie Brown, the new york victim alledgedly killed by tumblety, and the cut of the abdomen on her is totaly different then the cutting style of the ripper.Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Batty St. was a block away from the last killing on the double event day. A housekeeper reported an "American lodger" with bloodstained clothes. It is 15 minute walking distance to the victim. Tumblety was reported to have been a suspect in the American lodger incident. Look it up to get better details. I may be making it sound better than it is.
Back to the handwriting. I urge you to check Tumblety's letters temporally. There seems to be a pattern of messier handwriting up to 1888, culminating with messy handwriting in the "From Hell" letter. Also, I can imagine writing a "From Hell" letter with little intention of creating a quality letter. Also, have you considered the Irish connection?
MikeThe Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
http://www.michaelLhawley.comComment
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Off the topic
I think you have a very nice video though. You seem good to stand by your belief with tumlbety. Just be aware that you are now working in the feild of ripperology with hundreds of other ripperologists. Be prepared for a chance that your veiw may change. Be open to possibilties.
Yours truly
Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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I do see the irish connection like with 'mishtur'(spelling wrong wrong lol) but truly i honestly dont belive tumblety to be the ripper. I honestly dont think any of the suspects are likely to be the ripper. If I HAD to choose my choise would be Joseph Barnett. For many reasonsWashington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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I think Dr. Francis Tumblety is one of the three major suspects who could have been the Ripper, because he was suspected by a senior policeman, J. G. Littlechild, in 1888. Moreover, a cop, of impeccable rep who had no known axe to grind about the case [when he communicated his suspicion belatedly in 1913] and thus was arguably free of bias -- a self-serving prejudice which infected other senior police whose competence over this mystery HAD been challenged.
Dr T also appears as a Ripper suspect, big-as-life, in American tabloids [though mysteriously he is barely noticed by the UK press?] of the time, and himself gave a bizarre interview in which he admitted to frequenting Whitechapel. In this interview he is dressed less conspicuously and has somewhat trimmed his monstrous moustache. By implication, Tumblety did not claim to have an alibi for any of the murders.
Elements of his profile [that of an affluent, unemployed, deviant doctor, pursued by frantic police in 1888] may lie behind a mythical Super-suspect created by a famous Edwardian writer, George Sims, who may have been manipulated by his top police contacts, Macnaghten and Anderson.
I would recommend anybody who is interested in this suspect to go to the 'Dissertations' section and download two excellent articles by major researchers in this field, both of whom examine Dr T and his extraordinary 1889 interview:
'Tumblety Talks' by R. J. Palmer, and 'A Slouch-Hatted Yank' by Stewart P. Evans.Comment
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Another T beliver lol
I stick with my belief Dr.T wasnt the ripper in my opinion.Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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If anyone gets a chance, check out this program about Jack the rippeer. There are 5 parts to it and this is the best program that I have watched on Jack and I believe this woman gave a good criminal profile of Jack and this is why Jack was very hard to catch. As Laura Richards put it, the Ripper was ''frighteningly normal, yet capable of extraordinary cruelty".
The other 4 parts are on the right of that first part of the video.Comment
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I just watched the first part. Great, and it gives me an idea of collecting some of Tumblety's DNA and hopefully matching it to any existing DNA from Ripper evidence. Just a thought. I love this ripperology.
MikeThe Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
http://www.michaelLhawley.comComment
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I have seen that doco and I found it to be interesting, yet flawed in a way which I see with other Ripper docos, books and articles.
The flaw, in my opinion, is that does not deal with the historical context.
It slams together the most famous Ripper suspects [Druitt, Kosminski, Gull, Price Eddie, et. al.] as if they are all of the same historical value -- which they most certainly are not -- and also obscures that the police made a tectonic shift in their claims in the mid to late 1890's.
Docos like this one seem completely unaware, or don't care, that there was a division between Scotland Yard's field men and their bosses.
Abberline and Reid, for example, argued in retirement that there were no prime suspects at the time of the murders at all.
Yet senior police, Macnaghten, Anderson, Swanson and Littlechild, made quite different claims at the Sunset of the Victorian Age [Littlechild bestrides both eras because his pointing to a contemporaneous suspect was not made until the eve of the Great War.]
This strongly suggests that two vital suspects, Druitt and Kosminski, were unknown to the field detectives at the time [1888 to 1891] but somehow became known to the upper class police administrators just as the investigation concluded.
In fact, there is such a chasm, in terms of knowledge about these chief suspects, between these police layers that Reid and Abberline, in the 1900's. were completely unaware that the 'Drowned Doctor' and the 'Locked-up Lunatic' theories, which they dismissed as press fancies, originated from their own superiors at the Yard.
The whole mystery pivots on this factor.
After all, what would senior police do if they felt they had found prime suspects who, for one reason or another, were beyond their reach.
One option was to do nothing at all.
Yet so compelling were these suspects, to these different top cops, that they embraced them; in an official Report, in press statements, in private letters, in briefings to friendly writers, in private annotations, and in their memoirs. They embraced them even knowing that this embarrassing disconnect would be apparent to the public when the retired detectives began claiming that they had never heard of them?
Rightly or wrongly [and they obviously can't all be right?] these policemen were true believers in their post-Ripper hunt suspects.
Since they did prefer different suspects one school of thought claims that this means they were simply blutsering over weak suspects who, in the cold, hard light of primary sources [Druitt was really a barrister, Kosminski wasn't dead, Tumblety spent a career seeking attention] are easily discredited. That the so-called best brains at the top were hopelessly wrong and each cancels the other out.
Well, maybe.
Then again trying to untangle this complex knot, which they have bequeathed to us, maybe a lot more fruitful than any modern FBI/police profiling -- which I might add is, in the US at least, half the time wrong about any given culprit.
For example, this doco lumps together all the eyewitness reports as if they are of the same value.
Whereas a careful analysis of the statements by eyewitnesses shows that, arguably, the only decent witness was Joseph Lawende because the time, between his sighting of a young, Gentile-featured, Sailorish-dressed man with a victim to when her body was subsequently discovered by a beat cop, is so tight.
At the time police regarded Lawende [though un-named in the press] as the best witness as they utilized him -- and only this witness -- to 'confront' Ripper suspects Tom Sadler in 1991, and William Grant Grainger in 1895 [to which he said 'no' and 'yes' respectively].
Consider what a computer-generated travesty this doco makes of this element of the mystery because, of course, it makes for a more sensational television program under the tissue-thin guise of being scientific because it is hosted by a 'profiler' -- who 'coincidentally' looks like a movie star.Comment
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Well stated Jonathan. It points out eloquently the dangers of cherry picking evidence and how readers are susceptible to well-crafted misinformation. I agree that historical context is important. I had no idea.
I do want to make a side note about the dangers of embracing eyewitness testimony as solid evidence. As you may know, the courts use a falsus in uno guide for jurors listening to eye witnesses, which basically states that if a witness is wrong about one thing the juror is allowed to disregard none, some, or all of their testimony. The full Latin phrase is falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus. The adversarial system of justice recognizes potential dangers in eyewitness testimony blinding us to the truth. The hard sciences completely reject eye witness testimony as acceptable empirical evidence, because of the difficulty in verifying it.
Although, using eyewitness testimony as supportive evidence is critical in an investigation (especially if there is little other evidence), I would not use it as the cornerstone argument to believe one suspect over another.
MikeThe Ripper's Haunts/JtR Suspect Dr. Francis Tumblety (Sunbury Press)
http://www.michaelLhawley.comComment
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