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What basis is there for a conspiracy theory?

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  • #46
    Yet no JK tattooed on any body parts. No children. No evidence they were anything but what John described them as, "partners".
    Michael Richards

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Trapperologist View Post
      There's always the case of the Beast of Gevaudan. The French solved that one IMO.

      At first, they thought it was a wolf or some other wild animal but then the geo-profile of the murders showed one area where the killings were in direct parallel lines. A wild animal wouldn't do that.
      Any more info on that geo-profiling of the Beast's attacks? I don't think I've heard about that and would be interested to read more.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
        Yet no JK tattooed on any body parts. No children. No evidence they were anything but what John described them as, "partners".
        John Kelly never described Catherine Eddowes as a partner, he testified "Have seen the deceased and recognise her as Catherine Conway. I have been living with her for seven years." Eddowes sister Eliza Gould testified "She has been living for some years with Mr. Kelly." Frederick Wilkinson of the lodging-house at Flower and Dean-street testified "I have known the deceased and Kelly during the last seven years. They passed as man and wife, and lived on very good terms." Annie Philips, Eddowes daughter, testified her mother and Kelly "were living together as man and wife"

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

          Any more info on that geo-profiling of the Beast's attacks? I don't think I've heard about that and would be interested to read more.
          I know I saw it on the Beast of Gevaudan Episode of Animal X on YouTube. It’s a great Australian show that interviewed French researchers but I haven’t looked into it further.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Fiver View Post

            John Kelly never described Catherine Eddowes as a partner, he testified "Have seen the deceased and recognise her as Catherine Conway. I have been living with her for seven years." Eddowes sister Eliza Gould testified "She has been living for some years with Mr. Kelly." Frederick Wilkinson of the lodging-house at Flower and Dean-street testified "I have known the deceased and Kelly during the last seven years. They passed as man and wife, and lived on very good terms." Annie Philips, Eddowes daughter, testified her mother and Kelly "were living together as man and wife"
            Its in a press account of a Kelly interview, forgive me for not trawling through page after page for something I already know is there. What Wilkinson thought about the nature of the relationship, as well as Annie, is based on their own perceptions. What does John call Kate in the above quote? Does John say they were as man and wife? Does John say they were in essence married, virtually married, in a pseudo marriage, friends with benefits, a couple, …….
            Michael Richards

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            • #51
              Is there any way for the “terrorist(s)” theory to have evolved into the Royal Conspiracy? Homegrown terror is a natural fit.

              PS Could the killer or killer have killed someone with a “respectable” past and respectable family? Mary, with an accepted better part of a year in the West End, and no associates were officially found or came forward. Running in respectable circles doesn’t mean there aren’t any artists or gentry who consorted and has the odd illegitimate that would require a cover-up. That story in itself could snowball.
              Last edited by Trapperologist; 10-23-2019, 09:57 PM.

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              • #52
                Basically, and with no disrespect for the victims, we're dealing with poor, downtrodden non-entities targeted by an opportunist killer or killers. In terms of conspiracies there's nothing to see here, folks. There is no more whiff of conspiracy connecting the victims of the Whitechapel Murders than there has been between the victims of any other serial killer, and why should there be?
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Trapperologist View Post
                  I know I saw it on the Beast of Gevaudan Episode of Animal X on YouTube. It’s a great Australian show that interviewed French researchers but I haven’t looked into it further.
                  I'll try and track it down, cheers.
                  ​​​​​​Now, back to the conspiracy talk...

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                  • #54
                    How's this for a conspiracy? I once heard that (THE FOLLOWING POST HAS BEEN REDACTED AFTER LEGAL CONSULTATION)
                    Your evening of swing has been cancelled.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                      Basically, and with no disrespect for the victims, we're dealing with poor, downtrodden non-entities targeted by an opportunist killer or killers. In terms of conspiracies there's nothing to see here, folks. There is no more whiff of conspiracy connecting the victims of the Whitechapel Murders than there has been between the victims of any other serial killer, and why should there be?
                      Opportunistic killers of street walking women outdoors don't show up in peoples rooms in a tiny single entrance courtyard, while they are undressed. And then are allowed to stay by the soon to be murder victim.

                      Just because you don't see something Sam doesn't therefore mean it doesn't exist.
                      Last edited by Michael W Richards; 10-24-2019, 02:23 PM.
                      Michael Richards

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                      • #56
                        I think people need to evaluate what they are saying when they mention a conspiracy...one definition is" An agreement, understanding
                        thestatement (oral or written) of an exchange ofpromises; "theyhad an agreementthat they wouldnot interfere in each other's business"; "there was an understanding between managementandthe workers".
                        The Evil Act Conspiracy, like the Royal Conspiracy theory, is a connotation that is always assumed when the word is used. All it need mean is to have people in agreement to do something.


                        I suggest in that context, there is ample room for conspiracies of all kinds here...police agreeing to withhold evidence from the public...conspiracy...people agreeing to a story that they will give to an official...conspiracy...people planning to do strike...conspiracy...people of the International Mens Club agreeing to hold viewings of the murder scene for money...conspiracy...People were planning an assassination at the very time these murders were taking place..a verified Conspiracy there.

                        The main investigators of the Ripper crimes were assigned from their regular roles to these cases....and they were all in jobs related to Espionage, National Security, Intelligence gathering, Terrorism...all were involved in creating, investigating and infiltrating conspiracies.
                        Michael Richards

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                        • #57
                          Hi All,

                          Let's assume for a moment that the Whitechapel murders were part of a top secret official conspiracy.

                          Why were the brutal murders of five women considered less distressing to the public than the actuality of whatever was going on?

                          What could the police and government have been covering up which warranted their promulgation of JtR?

                          Regards,

                          Simon
                          Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                            Hi All,

                            Let's assume for a moment that the Whitechapel murders were part of a top secret official conspiracy.

                            Why were the brutal murders of five women considered less distressing to the public than the actuality of whatever was going on?

                            What could the police and government have been covering up which warranted their promulgation of JtR?

                            Regards,

                            Simon
                            I suppose it's more a question of "why was the brutal and very public killing of otherwise anonymous women deemed to be the most effective solution to the problem?"
                            The general idea of unwanted, problematic people being bumped off by a concerned government isn't totally in the realm of fantasy, but I'd love to hear what situation occurred that the Whitechapel murders were the best answer to?
                            Did someone report to the higher echelons, maybe suggest quietly removing the upstart troublemaker only to receive the reply "no. what's best in this situation is to brutally kill them and leave them in public, of course,this won't serve as a warning since no one knows what's going on, but yes, that's definitely the only plan. By the way, can you make sure to leave some cryptic clues, but not at all the crime scenes. Maybe some graffiti?"

                            I could at a stretch agree that removing some bothersome slum dwellers was preferable to a national scandal, but by creating JtR? Not for me.
                            Your evening of swing has been cancelled.

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                            • #59
                              Hi, A.B.E.,

                              I agree.

                              The conspiracy angle begins to crumble the moment you start to examine it.

                              But I still believe JtR was a creation of the police.

                              Regards,

                              Simon
                              Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                                Hi All,

                                Let's assume for a moment that the Whitechapel murders were part of a top secret official conspiracy.

                                Why were the brutal murders of five women considered less distressing to the public than the actuality of whatever was going on?

                                What could the police and government have been covering up which warranted their promulgation of JtR?

                                Regards,

                                Simon
                                Oh, I don't know Simon...maybe the fact that HMG representatives were working with known terrorists, people who had planned to blow up HRH the year before...and paying them out of government coffers,... maybe the fact that public hearings were airing rumors that Parliamentary figures authorized political assassinations, ..theres 2 that I believe might factor in that kind of scenario. As you pointed out before, Marys murder was happily accepted as being committed by Jack by the Police, they did nothing to dispel that belief. To suit what purpose...
                                Michael Richards

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