Mary Jane Wilson

[MayBea]

I think it could be her way of spelling of Angelique.

Could she be adopting a French name?

[MayBea]

I think perhaps what looks like a "k" is actually an "a".

"Angelica"

Her names is transcribed as Angthia in 1881 but I don't have the image to see what it should be and whether or not it ends in an a.

Either way, I'm thinking Mary Jane Wilson had a relative who went to the West End and may, at times at least, have decked herself out with a French name.

[MayBea]

Anglick could also be a form of the Greek name Angeliki.

Augustus Agelasto, Angelica's boss in 1861, had a sister, Angeliki, and there were other Agelastos with that name.

http://www.agelastos.com/genealogy/g...=I49&tree=main

[MayBea]

...the other Wilsons in the 61 census, there are no further returns we know of for any of them, is that correct?

Here is the death of Rose Wilson, Robert's mother, in 1870.

Name: Rose Ann Wilson
Address given: Bk Eldon Street age 50 years in Walton Park Cemetery
Estimated birth year: abt 1820
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1870
Age at Death: 50
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 23

[Roy Corduroy]

Thank you Maybea. So are we getting close to making the list? The list of her relatives who to the best of our knowledge were alive in November 1888. Who did not come forward to identify her, if she was the murder victim at Millers Court. Or do we suppose none of them knew this was her. In which case, what about the London connection, Angelica and Margaret? By the way, after Margaret married Daniel Reardon in Spitalfields in 1887, do we know where they are next? And so forth. Your thoughts on this matter would be appreciated at your convenience.

Roy

[Disco Stu]

Census image

Her names is transcribed as Angthia in 1881 but I don't have the image to see what it should be and whether or not it ends in an a.

The image doesn't help much. Looks like A n g e l i c a with a pronounced e and smudged c. If the 'e' is a 't', there's no attempt to cross.

[Wickerman]

Angelisa is a genuine name (though not convinced that this is what we have here) though it may help to see more of the page for examples of how this enumerator formed his letters.

[Roy Corduroy]

Okay I'll start a list then.

The known living adult relatives of Mary Jane Wilson (maiden name Kelly) in November 1888 who did not come forward to identify her if she was the murder victim at Dorset Street Spitalfields, London.

In Liverpool
Husband Robert Wilson
Brother Henry Kelly and wife Emmiline (maiden name Gould)
Mother Mary Kelly

So that's four people. Additions and adjustments welcome.

Roy

[MayBea]

...By the way, after Margaret married Daniel Reardon in Spitalfields in 1887, do we know where they are next? ...

Margaret and Daniel Reardon were living at 93 Cleveland Street in 1891.

Here's Margaret's uncle's family still on Bolsover Street as Gold rather than Gould.

50, Bolsover Street, St Marylebone,

GOLD, Robert Head Widower M 54 1837 Jobbing Upholsterer (Cabt) Suffolk

GOLD, Jessie Daughter Single F 21 1870 St Pancras, London
GOLD, Maud Daughter Single F 19 1872 St Marylebone, London
GOLD, Robert E Son M 12 1879 Scholar St Marylebone, London

The list of relatives in London from Brother Henry's marriage is fairly long. If she is Mary Kelly and they are her relatives, I can't say why they didn't identify her.

But we already know Mary Kelly's relatives didn't identify her or, if they did, it wasn't publicized. The 'cousin' she blamed should have identified her, at least.

[MayBea]

The image doesn't help much. Looks like A n g e l i c a with a pronounced e and smudged c. If the 'e' is a 't', there's no attempt to cross.

Thanks for the image, DS.

Since she signed her name Anglick on her marriage cert., I'm thinking she might have said her name was Angelique, pronounced it syllabically,
and it sounded like Angl-likah, hense what might be two Ls.

[Roy Corduroy]

Thank you. So we could add to the list Margaret Reardon (maiden name Rawlinson) Henry Kelly's niece through marriage. Place London

If you don't want to make a list, that's fine Maybea. I thought that was the whole point of this exercise. To make a list of her relatives who didn't come forward. Take Margaret for instance. If she is the 'London connection' that means she knew Mary Jane Wilson (maiden name Kelly) was in London and would instantly realize she was the murder victim. Otherwise, what is the connection worth.

In proposing someone to be the murder victim Mary Jane Kelly I would think this is a legitimate avenue of approach. A list, as precise as can be reasonably done, of her known relatives and associates alive November 1888. Sort of a basic Ripper 101 thing.

In any case, Maybea I appreciate you getting this far, and supplying information, along with Livia, Paddy, Debs, lots of folks.

Roy

[MayBea]

If Margaret lived on Thrawl St. on February 14, 1887, as the after banns certificate says, I'm sure she knew Mary Kelly or knew of her. The fact that Margaret didn't come forward with information could be deemed as suspicious, not the other way around.

It would never occur to me to see it your way, Roy, at least not to the point of dismissing the whole thing, when we don't know who Kelly's relatives are, where they were, or why they didn't come forward, or even if they did.

We know that a retired police officer's ID of MJK as a woman from Birkenhead was not publicized. Why should a woman from Liverpool be any different when the focus is on Limerick and Wales?


And what do you make of the absence of a death record IDing her as someone else?

She always lived on the same few blocks in Liverpool. Do you now think she left and went somewhere? Couldn't that be London?

[Roy Corduroy]

If Margaret lived on Thrawl St. on February 14, 1887, as the after banns certificate says, I'm sure she knew Mary Kelly or knew of her. The fact that Margaret didn't come forward with information could be deemed as suspicious, not the other way around.

Maybea I don't follow you. If she knew the murder victim, why is her not coming forward suspicious. In what way.

And before going on to your other questions please, while we're on Margaret, you shared this info -

Margaret and Daniel Reardon were living at 93 Cleveland Street in 1891

Was this Cleveland Street, Fitzroy Square W or Cleveland Street, Mile End Road E? There were two, one each in West London and East London.

Roy

[MayBea]

I didn't know there were two Cleveland Streets. I just assumed it was the the Cleveland Street of Scandal fame. Maybe someone can look that up.

As for my suggestion: Margaret was living at the one-time address of Polly Nichols witness, Patrick Mulshaw. She could have joined him or Ellen Holland, or Michael Kidney, or Elizabeth Gold, all witnesses who lived at one time on Thrawl, in their fifteen minutes of fame.

Then again she could have been like Morgenstern and Buki and Fleming who did not come forward, but all of them have been postively IDed and are now confirmed. The men would definitely have come under suspicion.

[Disco Stu]

Was this Cleveland Street, Fitzroy Square W or Cleveland Street, Mile End Road E? There were two, one each in West London and East London.Roy

St Marylebone, so it looks to be the Cleveland Street.