Mary Jane Wilson

[Lombro2]

So these are the parties.
Henry Herbert 4th Earl of Carnarvon… Elsie Searle b. 1881…”Aunt” and servant, Elizabeth Ryan

[Lombro2]

May I ask where Captain Verney fits into this?

I am aware of his case, but not sure how Mary Wilson fits in?
What I mean to say I that I think I do know where he fits in but want to know if someone else is aware before me,

So was someone aware of it before you, TRD?

[Lombro2]

The Royal Conspiracy originated in someone's head, so, if you don't mind me being blunt. That doesn't say a whole lot for your theory.

Whose head was that—Stowell or Gorman or Knight? Did the private social network of the time add nothing?

I was tracing back to Stowell who said he heard things from his friend, Gull’s daughter. She said her father was treating a patient with syphilis whom he thought was the Ripper. He extrapolated Prince Eddy.

The rest from Knight is maybe 50-100% Captain Verney—secret child in 1886 with a procuress he housed in Pennington, with the hoaxers taking the basics, jazzing it up, and running with it.

Or it could some from someone’s head but I don’t think Stowell would make up stories about the father of a friend. The story is no “biggie” anyway until the Ripper is added to it.

[Lombro2]

May I ask where Captain Verney fits into this?

I think I do know where he fits in but want to know if someone else is aware before me, because I have no intention of crashing someone else's party and come across as disrespectful to those who have studied this area of the case.

It was Gary Barnett who found the Verney case and first pointed out the similarities to Mary’s background story with the Gentleman and the French lady, the trip to France and the box. Gary said I could take it and use it for my theory. I’ll give you the same permission..

[Wickerman]

....

The Royal Conspiracy Theory originated with Carnarvon relatives around the 30s....

The Royal Conspiracy originated in someone's head, so, if you don't mind me being blunt. That doesn't say a whole lot for your theory.

......more confusing than the DaVinci Code but that was fiction.

Confusion I can handle, it's fabrication & deception that I object to.

Has someone forecast a pot of gold at the end of this rainbow?

[The Rookie Detective]

Hi RD,

I paid for the DNA testing for Mary Jane Wilson’s descendant, who was on Jtrforums, and I did the analysis. My conclusion is that she is indeed descended from the Earl of Carnarvon (her grandmother was the goddaughter of the 4th but I’d say the father was the 5th and the mother was really her aunt who was a maid servant).

The Royal Conspiracy Theory originated with Carnarvon relatives around the 30s. Mary Jane Wilson’s son married the illegitimate “Carnarvon” daughter in 1919. Mary Jane Wilson’s maiden name was Kelly. Would the rumour start just based in the coincidence of the name Mary Jane Kelly or was there more to it?

It’s more confusing than the DaVinci Code but that was fiction.

That is absolutely fascinating!


I love this post because it's an area of the case that I have never studied thus far.


May I ask where Captain Verney fits into this?

I am aware of his case, but not sure how Mary Wilson fits in?
What I mean to say I that I think I do know where he fits in but want to know if someone else is aware before me, because I have no intention of crashing someone else's party and come across as disrespectful to those who have studied this area of the case.


What a brilliant post, thank you so much for replying and it has now ignited an interest in this particular area of the case.

RD

[Lombro2]

Hi RD,

I paid for the DNA testing for Mary Jane Wilson’s descendant, who was on Jtrforums, and I did the analysis. My conclusion is that she is indeed descended from the Earl of Carnarvon (her grandmother was the goddaughter of the 4th but I’d say the father was the 5th and the mother was really her aunt who was a maid servant).

The Royal Conspiracy Theory originated with Carnarvon relatives around the 30s. Mary Jane Wilson’s son married the illegitimate “Carnarvon” daughter in 1919. Mary Jane Wilson’s maiden name was Kelly. Would the rumour start just based in the coincidence of the name Mary Jane Kelly or was there more to it?

It’s more confusing than the DaVinci Code but that was fiction.

You can blame Debra A for this:

Most people think the Ripper's final victim is still a Jane Doe. Or shall I say a Mary Jane Doe?
What if I told you she has already been identified?
Well, here is the story of The One: The Still Untold Story Of Mary Jane Kelly, the fifth canonical victim of Jack the Ripper.

So who was she?
Some people think Jack the Ripper was a Royal and his fifth victim Mary Jane Kelly was just a prostitute.
What would you say if I told you Mary Jane Kelly was a Royal?

Mary Jane Kelly: England's Woman In The Iron Mask eBook Amazon.ca: Kindle Store

[The Rookie Detective]

Hi all

Ask a silly question but what is the specific link to Mary Jane Wilson being suggested in this thread?

I am aware of how MJK could possibly be linked, and have a hypothesis ready to go, but I would like to know if there is anything definitive in this thread before I submit ideas, for fear of trespassing into someone elses work.

Basically, it's the first time on Casebook that I have read an entire thread and STILL don't understand what's going on?!

I have trawled through this rather intense and complex thread but still haven't seen how Mary Jane Wilson is being suggested as being linked to Mary Jane Kelly?


I am assuming that Mary Jane Kelly is being suggested as being Mary Jane Wilson?


Confused


RD

[The Rookie Detective]

Bump up

[Lombro2]

The other story about Elsie being the Goddaughter of the Earl of Carnarvon, where is the evidence for that? Was anyone in her family in service to the Carnavon's ? That would create a bit of myth making. The Carnavon estate is at Highclere in Hampshire, which incidentally is used as Downton Abbey.

Miss Marple

This would make a great season if Downton Abby. The book on King Tut’s “London’s Curse” repeats the rumour of the young 5th Earl of Carnarvon having an affair with Mary Jane Kelly.

[Trapperologist]

Maybea,

The story about Princess Mary is unveriable gossip, and does not fit the facts. Garbled stories, romanticising ancestors get handed down as if they
were set in stone, but they are embroidered with each generation....

When she was 18 the family came back to England and settled at White Lodge, where she acted as social secretary to her mother.
When she was 24 she became engaged to Prince Albert Victor of Clarence,he died shortly after. A year later she became engaged to his brother George, who became George V.
Mary had known both boys since a child. She had a strong sense of duty as a Queen, and was a loyal wife, their's was regarded as a love match. Mary had great popular appeal.
Miss Marple

Theirs was regarded as a love match but grandmother Elsie Searle said Mary wasn't at all keen on the marriage and was "locked up" at White Lodge until "she came to her senses".

The MJW/Elsie Searle descendant remembers reading that someone, perhaps Prince Edward, was quoted about the marriage and what he said included details that confirmed the story that was handed down in the family.

There was definite hesitancy. https://books.google.ca/books?id=m8M...itancy&f=false

[Trapperologist]

Brisbane Telegraph Newspaper Archives

Tuesday, March 07, 1911 - Page 17


BUGGY FATAL ACCIDENT. Death of Mrs. Ruxton. Mrs. Kate Mary Frances Ruxton, who lived at the corner of Victoria and Water streets, Valley, "arid" (sic) who on Saturday was injured by being knocked down by a buggy, died in the "General Hospital at 2 p.m; yesterday A friend of the deceased' lady writes to state that Mrs. Ruxton was not an old age pensioner, as stated in yesterday's "Telegraph." She was of independent means and had property in Kangaroo Point, Upper Roma street, and Red Hill. Mrs. Ruxton arrived in Queensland in 1872, being one of a number of postulates brought out from Ireland by the late Bishop O'Quinn, and two months after her arrival she was married to Mr. Thomas Faulkner, a well known and highly respected resident of Brisbane who died some years ago. Her second husband was Mr. Robert Gould Ruxton, who survives her. He at present resides in Sydney.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=ca

[Trapperologist]

Here's a long article about the suspected arson case. It appears Robert Gould (Ruxton) was charged along with his wife and one other person of setting his own shop on fire. He was a tailor. They were acquitted.

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/ne...can%27t%20read

[Trapperologist]

Here's the real Robert Gould, Henry's (and Mary's) brother-in-law. He was on trial for Arson in Christchurch, NZ, in 1881. His distinguishing mark is a bayonet would he got while in the "Lancers".



https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/pe...877&title=NZPG

[Trapperologist]

Margaret and Daniel Reardon were living at 93 Cleveland Street in 1891.

Here's Margaret's uncle's family still on Bolsover Street as Gold rather than Gould.



The list of relatives in London from Brother Henry's marriage is fairly long. If she is Mary Kelly and they are her relatives, I can't say why they didn't identify her.

But we already know Mary Kelly's relatives didn't identify her or, if they did, it wasn't publicized. The 'cousin' she blamed should have identified her, at least.

The Robert Gold here is not the Robert Gould, brother of Angelica. The real Robert Gould married Marjorie Ruxton and moved to New Zealand.

They might be distantly related but that’s one less group of close London relatives for MJW.