Mary Jane Wilson

[MayBea]

It would be helpful if you could give a brief precis of this story of Jack and what is the royal connection?

Here is a quote from the webpage devoted to the genealogy of Jack's daughter, Patricia. Generation 2 records her parents--Jack and Elsie. Bold mine.

Generation No. 2

2. Arthur John Sullivan, born Abt. 5 July 1884 (or September 1887); died 1 December 1967 in Morden, Surrey, England. He was the son of 4. Arthur Sullivan (or Robert Wilson) and 5. Mary Kelly. He married 3. Elsie Frances Searle 20 December 1919 in St Martin, London, England.

3. Elsie Frances Searle, born 4 July 1881 in Bristol, England; died 4 January 1958 in Morden, Surrey, England.

Notes for Elsie Frances Searle: Goddaughter of Earl of Carnarvon. He gave her two clothes brushes with the Carnarvon crest on. Claimed Princess May was put into White Lodge, Richmond Park, to stop her from running away. She didn't want to marry "their choice" (King George?) - was in love with another man, and apparently told Elsie and her friend Blanche this.

http://webspace.webring.com/people/q...l/irishan.html

[Roy Corduroy]

Her In-Laws

Mary Jane Kelly married Robert Wilson in 1872 in Liverpool. Debs found Robert in the 1861 household census -

Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Alban

James Wilson 40, a shoemaker
Rose Wilson 41
Thomas Wilson 17
Jane Wilson 14
Robert Wilson 9
James Wilson 9

The parents and first two children born Ireland, Robert & James born Liverpool.

Are there additional returns for the other Wilsons seen here?

Roy

[miss marple]

Maybea,

The story about Princess Mary is unveriable gossip, and does not fit the facts. Garbled stories, romanticising ancestors get handed down as if they
were set in stone, but they are embroidered with each generation.
Mary, born 1867, was a minor royal and her father Francis of Teck was fairly poor by royal standards. Although born in Kensington Palace, the family spend a lot of time travelling abroad visiting relatives. Mary was educated by her mother to whom she was very close. Mary was also very cultured compared to other members of the family, she had seen a lot of art in Italy.

When she was 18 the family came back to England and settled at White Lodge, where she acted as social secretary to her mother.
When she was 24 she became engaged to Prince Albert Victor of Clarence,he died shortly after. A year later she became engaged to his brother George, who became George V.
Mary had known both boys since a child. She had a strong sense of duty as a Queen, and was a loyal wife, their's was regarded as a love match. Mary had great popular appeal.
The other story about Elsie being the Goddaughter of the Earl of Carnarvon, where is the evidence for that? Was anyone in her family in service to the Carnavon's ? That would create a bit of myth making. The Carnavon estate is at Highclere in Hampshire, which incidentally is used as Downton Abbey.

Miss Marple

[MayBea]

The other story about Elsie being the Goddaughter of the Earl of Carnarvon, where is the evidence for that? Was anyone in her family in service to the Carnavon's ?

Her aunt and uncle were in service to Lady Carnarvon in Pixton Park in Somerset. They are Elizabeth Ryan and her future husband, Pierre Funel, incorrectly transcribed as Pierre Fund on the census for 1891.

Elsie and her mother were dressmakers on Lower Richmond Road near White Lodge in 1891, as I recall. No baptismal record has been found listing Elsie's godfather as the Earl but the records support the family stories.

[MayBea]

Mary Jane Kelly married Robert Wilson in 1872 in Liverpool. Debs found Robert in the 1861 household census -
...The parents and first two children born Ireland, Robert & James born Liverpool. Are there additional returns for the other Wilsons seen here?

There was another daughter born in Ireland, the oldest, Mary Ann. This is her family in 1881, as found by Livia.


71 Glover St
Prescot
St. Helens

James Stirrup 43 Glass Bottle Blower, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Mary Stirrup 39 Ireland
Sarah J. Stirrup 20 Lanarkshire, Scotland
Alice A. Stirrup 5 St. Helens, Lanc.
James Stirrup 17 Lanarkshire, Scotland
John W. Stirrup 13 St. Helens
Charles Stirrup 10 St. Helens

They are definitely the cousins Jack visited in St. Helens who worked for Pilkington Glassworks.

[Roy Corduroy]

Okay thank you. She is Robert's sister because ___ ?

Who is Jack? Visited when?

and my original question - the other Wilsons in the 61 census, there are no further returns we know of for any of them, is that correct?

Roy

[MayBea]

Jack is Mary Wilson's son, William John. He is said to have visited his cousins who worked at Pilkington's. That would be sometime while he was growing up in Liverpool.

Other than Robert and Mary Ann, the Wilsons are hard to locate and identify after 1861. Robert's twin brother, James, definitely died in childhood. I will try to get the death record posted.

This is James and Rose in 1861, with daughters Mary A and Jane, in Post #47 of the link. Thomas, who would be 7, isn't listed.

[MayBea]

Burial Record

Name: James Wilson
Birth Year: abt 1852
Age: 10
Burial Date: 18 Oct 1862
Parish: Walton Park

Address: Cross Ellen Street district of St Martin
Buried at the Parochial Cemetery, Rice Lane , Walton

(Courtesy of Paddy)

[MayBea]

Thomas Wilson, born Ireland, right age, right occupation, in 1871

1871

Thomas Wilson

Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1843
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male (unmarried)
Where born: Dublin, Ireland
Civil Parish: Blackburn
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Address: 59 Canterbury Street
Town: Blackburn
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Occupation: shoemaker


Martha Wright 64 (Keeps Boarders)
Elizabeth Brindle 17
Roger Wilkinson 21
Thomas Wilson 28

[MayBea]

Here is the more interesting side of the family. Her brother Henry's sister-in-law in Westminster in 1881. (She was on Horatio Street in Liverpool in 1871.)

Her other daughter, Margaret Rawlinson, not listed, gives her address as 5 Thrawl Street in 1887 on her marriage certificate.


Angthia (Angelica) Peyton (formerly Gould and Rawlinson)

Age:32
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relationship to Head:Wife
Gender:Female
Where born: Yorkshire, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: St. James
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 15 Broad Street
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Tailoress

Registration district: Westminster
Sub-registration district: Golden Square

John Peyton 33 Tailor Roscommon Co. Stokestown, Ireland
Angthia Peyton 32
Elizabeth A. Rawlins (Rawlinson) 15 Stepdaughter, Dressmaker, Runcorn Cheshire

[MayBea]

Here's Margaret Rawlinson in 1881 still living on Horatio Street, with her grandparents.


Margret Ellen Rawlinson

Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Relationship to Head: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Kew., Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country:England
Street address: 7 Cellar Horatio Street
Occupation: Scholar


Robert Gould 64
Elizabeth Gould 64
Margret Ellen Rawlinson 14

When she was old enough, she went back to London where she was born, to join her mother Angelica in the West End, and then wound up in the East End in 1887.

[MayBea]

Margret Ellen Rawlinson
Street address: 7 Cellar Horatio Street
When she was old enough, she went back to London where she was born, to join her mother Angelica in the West End, and then wound up in the East End in 1887.

Mary Jane Wilson was living seven blocks up from Horatio Street. Her brother Henry, Margaret's uncle, was living two doors over at 3 Cellar Horatio St.

Margaret Rawlinson came from a family of tailors and dressmakers which is often synonymous with prostitution.

[MayBea]

The Medal Card of Mary Jane Wilson's first son, Robert Bruce.

Medal Card of Wilson, Robert Bruce. Place of Birth: Liverpool. Date of
Birth: 1873.
Registry of Shipping and Seamen: Index of First World War Mercantile Marine
Medals and the British War Medal. Medal Card of Wilson, Robert Bruce. Place
of Birth: Liverpool. Date of Birth: 1873.
Collection: Records of the Board of Trade and of successor and related
bodies
Date range: 1914 - 1925
Reference:BT 351/1/153453
Subjects:Medals | Merchant seaman | Operations, battles and campaigns |
Conflict

[MayBea]

Father-in-law James Wilson in 1871.

1871

James Wilson, 50, shoemaker
b. abt. 1821, County Down, Ire.
8a Foley St. Kirkdale, Lanc.
Lodger
Widwr

[curious4]

Seamstress

Mary Jane Wilson was living seven blocks up from Horatio Street. Her brother Henry, Margaret's uncle, was living two doors over at 3 Cellar Horatio St.

Margaret Rawlinson came from a family of tailors and dressmakers which is often synonymous with prostitution.

Hello MayBea,

No, not dressmaker, seamstress. Prostitutes would often put down their occupation as seamstress (someone who took in sewing) and this became a euphemism for prostitute, but a dressmaker was something different.

Best wishes,
C4