Jack, Son of Jack

[Debra A]

Hi Debra,

This is the article, you will agree, from which George West took his information about Mary Kelly. In it, her child is described as a son of 8.
http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=18036

If West is describing a child matching the one in the Standard, then the child was born around 1880. West retired to another place in 1882 so the child he knew of, or saw, would be under two years old so it could well have been a girl. Again, we have a possible match.

Hi MB
That would mean that The Standard's initial account of the murder of MJK was spot on in it's detail? Which it isn't according to witnesses, Barnett especially. Doesn't George West associate Miller's Court MJK with the Birkenhead MJK because of the specific claims made in the Standard at the break of the story: that Miller's Court MJK lived with her child and her mother?

[GUT]

G'Day MayBea

Any chance of posting more of that article, in particular the last couple of words caught my attention, about in another room. Does that part relate to MJK or is he moving on to another family/person.

[GUT]

Sorry MayBea

I assume its from the link to JTRforums but it won't let me see it!! Do I need to join to view things?

[Stephen Thomas]

I assume its from the link to JTRforums but it won't let me see it!! Do I need to join to view things?

Who wouldn't want to join JTRforums?

[GUT]

G'Day Stephen

But how? I can't find a register link anywhere.

[Debra A]

The article referenced by George West

The Standard Saturday, November 10, 1888

[Mayerling]

As I remember, Mayerling, there was a scene in Topsy Turvey of Sullivan in a French brothel. That would have happened in 1884, the same year Mary Kelly allegedly went to France. A connection was made there.

The Audience Guide for the Skylight Theatre on Broadway describes him thusly:

He smoked, drank, gambled and was
somewhat notorious for his voracious
appetites, including encounters with
prostitutes and indulging in fine food and
wine.

http://www.skylightmusictheatre.org/...ud-guide-5.pdf

Thanks MaeBea for the site - rather interesting one about G & S, or whom I am a fan.

[Mayerling]

Jack Wilson married into a family of Ryans and Batemans living in London. That was in 1919.

Could the man who was visited in 1891 been named John Gleeson Bateman instead of Gateman? If so, could he have a connection with Gleeson Wilson?

Jeff

[MayBea]

Thanks MaeBea for the site - rather interesting one about G & S, or whom I am a fan.

You're welcome, Mayerling. I'll admit that my description of S as a "famous patron of prostitutes" might be an over-exaggeration. I must defer on that.

[MayBea]

Hi MB
That would mean that The Standard's initial account of the murder of MJK was spot on in it's detail? Which it isn't according to witnesses, Barnett especially. Doesn't George West associate Miller's Court MJK with the Birkenhead MJK because of the specific claims made in the Standard at the break of the story: that Miller's Court MJK lived with her child and her mother?

The account of Whitechapel Mary doesn't have to be accurate for West's description of the Mary in Birkenhead to be accurate. It's a fair guess West's description of her is accurate and it does match Jack Wilson's mother, if she did visit with her sister and mother in Birkenhead which is probable.

Of course, I have to admit I'm trying to link Jack's mother with MJK in London. So there is the problem with the account not seeming to match Jack's mum.

But couldn't Mary Kelly have had a child who didn't live with her regularly, and couldn't the friends, whom she allowed to stay regularly with her and who were likely older, be mistaken as being her mother?

[MayBea]

Has anyone researched who the woman named Mary Jane Dixon who signed as a witness on one of the family wedding certificates (Was it Christina's? I can't remember offhand).

I did look into Mary Jane Dixon to identify her and see if she had any connection to the Birkenhead Dixons or any other connection to the Kellys and Wilsons of Liverpool besides signing as a witness at Christina's wedding, but I couldn't find any connections with the candidates in the Preston area.

Do you think she might be Christina's mother still alive and remarried as a Dixon? I might have to look at Mary Jane Kelly/Wilson marriages to Dixons between 1887 and 1899.

[Paddy]

Dixons

Could Annie Amelia Kellys in-law have taken Jack in and been the maiden aunt.
If you look at RG12/2834 page 26 in the 1891 census in Helsby Cheshire
There is also a William J Dixon living with them. (Ann Amelia Kellys' husband
was a Dixon wasn't he?)

John Dixon 65
Mary A Dixon 68
Mary H Dixon 36
William J Dixon 5

Pat....................

[GUT]

G'Day Deb

Thanks for posting the full article, I could find it but not in a format I could read.

[GUT]

The article mentions a "Jack" who was a drover, living in McCarthy's any ideas anyone. It says MJK was his mistress.

[Paddy]

Re 1891 census

I traced this (last posted) 1891 family back and in 1871 they had a son George living with them born 1851 in Tranmere Cheshire. I think this is Annies husband so the little boy William J with them in 1891 is probably your Jack. But Mary H Dixon is not your Mary J as she is in previous earlier census with parents.

Anne Amelia Kelly (Mary J's sister) married a George Dixon in Birkenhead.
George died in 1880 Birkenhead (see below from freeBMD)

Marriages Jun 1877
Dixon George Birkenhead 8a 686
KELLY Ann Amelia Birkenhead 8a 686

Deaths Dec 1880
Dixon George 29 Birkenhead 8a 305

Pat.................