The Diary—Old Hoax or New?

[John G]

Who knows how many times "one-off instance", "one-off standpoint", "one-off event" et cetera were used in unpublished documents and letters between 1888 and 1904.

Probably quite a lot I'd circumspectly suggest ...

Great. So list twenty examples. Or, if that's too difficult, one example.

[John G]

And we have copies of every written document and letter from 1888 onwards, do we? And each has been carefully reviewed?

Okay. Let say I respond to this post with the word, "Driggle". You respond by saying you haven't a clue what that word means, and even if there is some obscure reference from millennia ago why would I use a word that you couldn't reasonably expect to understand the meaning of. I respond by saying, I've no idea whether this word as ever been used before, and I don't care whether you understand it or not, but if you suggest it has never existed, and I'm imbecilic in using an archaic and/ or non-existent word, then do "you have copies of every written document and letter from 1888 onwards?"

[Sam Flynn]

Maybe, Sam, your background is slightly more middle-clarse, shall we say; if, of course, there ever was a middle-class in Wales, forgive me for saying so but I can't resist it!

I don't mind at all, Graham. However, both my parents grew up in council houses to working class parents and my father's family, in particular, was pitifully poor. My father worked on farms and a slaughterman before he joined the police force, from which he retired after thirty-odd years as a constable. My mother did various clerical jobs to help my sister and me through school and university.

I well remember my old man, who was an electrician, coming home from work during the 1950's and regaling my mother (and anyone else within ear-shot) of what he had done at work that day.

I daresay he did, but I can't see why he should have used jargon. In the case of "one-off", we're not just talking about the passing on of jargon, but the phrase (a) reaching sufficient saturation in common parlance; and (b) its mutating in meaning such that it could casually be used to refer to non-physical entity.

[John G]

I have a slight suspicion that some people on this thread struggle with basic logic. So it's time for a little game. If such a person decides to answer my posts i'll simply respond with a phrase or word that I guarantee no one on here as ever heard of. And if they question why I'm using such an archaic/ non existent word or phrase, I'll respond by saying: " That's your problem, not mine. I simply don't care whether you understand it or not. And by the way, can you provide absolute, incontrovertible proof that word or phrase has never been used before?" Gruddgel!

Hilarious. Simply hilarious.

[Graham]

Sam, without knowing precisely when the phrase 'one off' was first coined - and I think you'll understand why I claim it was a long time before 1888 - we can't really take a view as to when it entered everyday usage. But I do believe it was well before 1888, even though it may not have been recorded until some time after then. I do wonder if Orsam ever thought to consult old technical and mechanical drawings before he made his pronouncement....I bet he didn't. Because that, I believe, is where the very earliest written examples of 'one off' will be found.

Now here's a thought: what about 'tin matchbox empty'??? Any ideas?

Graham

[Graham]

Okay. Let say I respond to this post with the word, "Driggle". You respond by saying you haven't a clue what that word means, and even if there is some obscure reference from millennia ago why would I use a word that you couldn't reasonably expect to understand the meaning of. I respond by saying, I've no idea whether this word as ever been used before, and I don't care whether you understand it or not, but if you suggest it has never existed, and I'm imbecilic in using an archaic and/ or non-existent word, then do "you have copies of every written document and letter from 1888 onwards?"

Driggle

{v. intr.} to laugh unintentionally at the same time as taking a sip of ones drink, so as to create a bubble pool in said drink. The word is an amalgamation of the words Drink and Giggle. This is often done at parties where amusing stories will occur alongside communal alcohol consumption, although the act of driggling is not solely exclusive to alcoholic beverages.

I need say no more.

Graham

[John G]

Driggle

{v. intr.} to laugh unintentionally at the same time as taking a sip of ones drink, so as to create a bubble pool in said drink. The word is an amalgamation of the words Drink and Giggle. This is often done at parties where amusing stories will occur alongside communal alcohol consumption, although the act of driggling is not solely exclusive to alcoholic beverages.

I need say no more.

Graham

And it appears that I am the originator of the phrase, and the first person in recorded history to use such a phrase! And I am not acknowledging that your interpretation is correct...that's pure speculation.

[Graham]

And it appears that I am the originator of the phrase, and the first person in recorded history to use such a phrase! And I am not acknowledging that your interpretation is correct...that's pure speculation.

Speculation my arse....I Googled it, and what I posted is what I found!

Graham

[John G]

There are some people on this thread who clearly believe that it is perfectly plausible that James Maybrick would have originated a phrase, or be the first person in recorded history to use such a phrase, in a book of dubious, that is to say non existent, provenance. A phrase that no one of the period would have understood, and would have considered to he gobbledygook.

There are some people on here who believe it perfectly plausible that such a phrase would not he used again, in recorded history, for half a century, and then in a strict technical sense, only to be found in obscure publications.

There are some people on here who believe it perfectly plausible that, in recorded history, no one else would use such a phrase, in the context used in the "Maybrick" diary, for about a century.

There are some people on here who clearly believe that it is perfectly plausible that, in 27 years, no-one has been able to find such a phrase in common usage, or any usage, at the time the Diary was supposedly written.

There are some people on here who clearly believe that it is perfectly plausible that in 27 years no one has been able to find a single recorded example of the phrase being used again in the same context as used in the Diary for around a century.

There are some people on here who clearly believe that it is perfectly plausible that the phrase has not been found, in 27 years, for about half a century in any context.

Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice.

[Sam Flynn]

Sam, without knowing precisely when the phrase 'one off' was first coined - and I think you'll understand why I claim it was a long time before 1888 - we can't really take a view as to when it entered everyday usage. But I do believe it was well before 1888

It's not just "one-off [physical artefact]" though, but "one-off [abstract entity]". Besides, I don't see any reason to believe, or evidence to suggest, that even "one-off [physical artefact]" would have been in everyday use before the 20th century, never mind its abstract mutation.

[John G]

Speculation my arse....I Googled it, and what I posted is what I found!

Graham

That was obviously too simple. What about frabbblw? Google that!

Anf just out of interest, why in God's earth did you think it reasonable/ sensible that I would use an obscure phrase, in completely the wrong context?

[Iconoclast]

Great. So list twenty examples. Or, if that's too difficult, one example.

Well I can't! But the great news is that I don't have to - it just doesn't matter because we know an example was given in 1904! Just 15 short years after Maybrick's death, and surely not the first such example in reality (if not in print)?

Nothing more to prove there. The principle of a one-off 'event' (in this case 'standpoint') was given no later than 1904. That's all we needed to know. What a palaver over nothing!

[Iconoclast]

There are some people on this thread who clearly believe that it is perfectly plausible that James Maybrick would have originated a phrase, or be the first person in recorded history to use such a phrase, in a book of dubious, that is to say non existent, provenance. A phrase that no one of the period would have understood, and would have considered to he gobbledygook.

There are some people on here who believe it perfectly plausible that such a phrase would not he used again, in recorded history, for half a century, and then in a strict technical sense, only to be found in obscure publications.

There are some people on here who believe it perfectly plausible that, in recorded history, no one else would use such a phrase, in the context used in the "Maybrick" diary, for about a century.

There are some people on here who clearly believe that it is perfectly plausible that, in 27 years, no-one has been able to find such a phrase in common usage, or any usage, at the time the Diary was supposedly written.

There are some people on here who clearly believe that it is perfectly plausible that in 27 years no one has been able to find a single recorded example of the phrase being used again in the same context as used in the Diary for around a century.

There are some people on here who clearly believe that it is perfectly plausible that the phrase has not been found, in 27 years, for about half a century in any context.

Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice.

There are some people on this thread who have been able to show that "one off instance" was repeated (in effect) just 15 years after Maybrick's death which implies that Maybrick's using it in 1888 was no great shakes.

I honestly have struggled to follow your post (above) and your previous couple so - rather than attempt to work them out - I'm just going to move on, delighted in the knowledge that nothing you have posted could have altered the rather obvious fact that "one off instance" did not wait a century before being captured (in effect) in print. Lord Orsam must be seriously pissed off tonight.

Happy days.

[harry]

I did read of a man who dealt 'One off' the bottom of the deck.Only time he ever did so.His playing partner shot him.1865.Did Maybrick play cards?

[Abby Normal]

fyi if anyone wants to really know the history of the phrase one off instance and how it proves the diary is a hoax (like if you actiually needed yet another fact that does that) all they need to do is google orsam books and click on articles.

the definitive answer to the maybrick nonsense(and many ripper related bull shite) will be found here.