The Diary

[caz]

Thanks Steve.

I am very keen on science but I think there is an assumption by the general populace that scientists are "clever" and therefore know all the answers.

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. The really clever scientist will always be the one who doesn't claim to know something that others don't.

Just look at how many parents are still putting other people's babies at risk by not allowing their own children to have the MMR jab as soon as possible. And all because of one doctor's absolute conviction - which has since proved false - that the jab can and does cause autism. (Autism generally shows itself in children about the same age as the MMR jab is given, so while a cause and effect presumption was perhaps understandable, there should have been far more caution exercised before ruling out the coincidental timing possibility. I believe crucial studies carried out by others went on to find that autism rates in pre-MMR days and non-MMR children are no lower than for those who have the jab.)

A decision has now been taken and this doctor has just been struck off for the damage he has caused. But really, it shouldn't ever come down to one man's unsupported power over public hearts and minds.

Love,

Caz
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[Steven Russell]

Thanks, Caz, for a very thought provoking reply.

I am very keen on science but I think there is an assumption by the general populace that scientists are "clever" and therefore know all the answers. It is very easy to forget that science is a constant quest for the truth which alters its view of the world continually as new evidence is discovered. I firmly believe that in, say, thirty years from now, our "science" will look like the knowledge of the ancient Greeks (formidable scientists though some of them were).

No doubt techniques and theories undreamed of by us will come to pass. DNA is a good example. Who would have thought, thirty years ago, that a case could be solved by a cigarette stub?

Perhaps in the future, we will know who wrote the diary and maybe even who JTR was.

Best wishes,

Steve.

P.S. The above was my rather inelegant way of agreeing with your point and supplementing it with my own thoughts.

[caz]

Dear all,
Didn't the forgers of the Hitler diaries "artificially age" the documents by placing them in a low-heat oven for some time? I'm not sure if this is true but it is a fact that heat tends to speed up most chemical and physical processes.

If the diary had been subjected to such treatment, might that not compromise the results of e.g. ion migration tests and therefore provide a false estimate of when pen was put to paper?

I sincerely doubt if the laboratories and scientists involved would be so naive as to neglect this possibility but I would like to hear others' opinions.

Best wishes,

Steve.

P.S. Apologies if this has already been thrashed out.

Hi Steve,

Me too. I'm pretty sure that signs of heating would have been among others looked out for, by the various specialists who have examined the diary. In the wake of the Hitler diaries, lessons were learned about what should set the alarm bells ringing and what kind of fakery could be checked out.

All I know is that nobody has yet been able to demonstrate that this diary has been artificially aged in any way. That goes for the watch scratches too. But now we don't have anyone regularly batting for the other side I see it as my job to point out that until someone proves otherwise, both artefacts could have been aged in ways that have thus far defied detection by a growing number of experts in a variety of fields, including paper, ink, bookbinding and metallurgy.

Whether the 'finders' of either the watch or the diary could reasonably have expected to carry that off and escape with their liberty - again, in the wake of the quickly demolished Hitler diaries, which put their creator in prison - is another matter.

Love,

Caz
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[Natalie Severn]

That's more like it! Flattery will get you everywhere ...

But its not flattery---seriously.

[Chris]

But heck- Chris is an ace researcher and I have a huge regard for that!

That's more like it! Flattery will get you everywhere ...

[Natalie Severn]

It's late over there. You two should be in bed. But, probably, not together.

I laughed out loud when I read this GM ! Yes,you could say Chris and I wouldnt make for the best of bed fellows!
But heck- Chris is an ace researcher and I have a huge regard for that!
Cheers
Norma

[The Grave Maurice]

It's late over there. You two should be in bed. But, probably, not together.

[Chris]

.......so Chris......are you saying everybody can look forward to a lot of fun on here------and heaps of laughter about ....er.......Aaron Kosminski !

No - that wasn't what I meant at all. But never mind.

[Natalie Severn]

The latest spin on Kosminski in the bin?

.......so Chris......are you saying everybody can look forward to a lot of fun on here------and heaps of laughter about ....er.......Aaron Kosminski !

[Chris]

Thanks ......well you did always stick to a more serious agenda Chris----whereas John eventually just became jokingly disputatious!

That's me - humourless and uptight.

But I'm determined to turn over a new leaf. I've already embarked on an in-depth study of your posts on Aaron Kosminski, in an attempt to become more frivolous and light-hearted ...

[Natalie Severn]

Norma, you say the nicest things ...

Thanks ......well you did always stick to a more serious agenda Chris----whereas John eventually just became jokingly disputatious!

[Chris]

Chris,though very clever and knowledgeable, was simply not being witty or laid back enough to tackle the subject matter with enough panache!

Norma, you say the nicest things ...

[Steven Russell]

Thanks again, Norma, for making all that much more clear to me. The more I see of this site, the more I realise that there is a definite soap opera quality to it.

Cheers,

Steve.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Steve,
Well you asked if the diary had been the subject of a discussion similar to the one you are having here about age of paper/ink/ authenticity etc and I was saying that yes ,these things had indeed been the subject of many lengthy and often quite acrimonious discussions between John Omlor,Caz and sometimes Chris Phillips.And I mean lengthy and I mean acrimonious.
I think John Omlor became totally frustrated because he could not get Caz to see things the way he thought they should be seen.Both could write very wittily and their posts were often great fun to read .But eventually things got a bit heated and then John hopped it and I rather think it was because Caz was the more tenacious! Chris,though very clever and knowledgeable, was simply not being witty or laid back enough to tackle the subject matter with enough panache!
Best
Norma

[Steven Russell]

Dear Norma,
I have only been a member of this site for a few months and, though I thank you very much for your answer, I am having difficulty interpreting what it means. If you have the time, could you please elaborate?

Best wishes,

Steve.