The Diary

[Soothsayer]

i would laugh my ass off it if it was proven to be genuine.....

Keep the faith, Jason (and your rear end in good humour) for that day will come. Kaz may well be 97 by then, not 37, and Latin long since a forgotten language (let's face it, it's pretty irrelevat as it is); but time will indeed reveal all, and the self-centred, self-absorbed tosser who committed the canonical crimes will be accepted in to the annals of sociopathic history for what he was.

Or, to pursue the misspelling theme - with one good-natured eye on your anticipated chuckling, and another (less good-natured) on those who we sometimes forget committed such terrible crimes - the anals of sociopathic history ...

[Kaz]

currently reading the diary again, not looked at it since when it first came out....have to admit that it there is still a big part of me which thinks that if its a hoax then its a bloody good effort.....having read the stories behind the alleged faking idea, i find it amazing that they pulled it off.....in fact i am not sure whether they did.....i would laugh my ass off it if it was proven to be genuine.....

I have read the diary, the final chapter, the american connection and am currently reading the last victim. I have also read most of whats on these boards. I am still undecided. Recently its been stated that alot of whats been written is elaboration, fabrication and out and out lies. Reality is unless you 'SEE' for yourself the evidence and talk to the people first hand WHAT do you believe???

I also would love to see the diary proven to be genuine. I'm 37 so I hope I'm not to old....

[Jason]

currently reading the diary again, not looked at it since when it first came out....have to admit that it there is still a big part of me which thinks that if its a hoax then its a bloody good effort.....having read the stories behind the alleged faking idea, i find it amazing that they pulled it off.....in fact i am not sure whether they did.....i would laugh my ass off it if it was proven to be genuine.....

[Jon Guy]

Er, chaps, there is nothing in the diary about anything on Kelly's wall

There`s nothing about the murders in the bleedin Diary, Caz !!

[Archaic]

Greek To Me

Hi, Caz. That's what I get for double-checking my Latin spelling on the internet, which persuaded me to edit my original post and add an "n" to "revelat"!
From website 'Practical Latin' : tempus omnia revelant : "time reveals all things."

Even though the website 'Practical Latin ' practically can't spell, it taught me an even cooler Latin saying:
"parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus"- "mountains will be in labor, and an absurd mouse will be born."
"This pungent line comes from Horace's Ars Poetica. It's a metaphor that means when something long awaited, much hyped and expensive fails to live up to expectations it can be slammed with this damning review."


Can't wait to use it... how does it go? "NASCAR ridiculous mouse"?

Cheers,
Archaic

[Hannibal Hayes]

To reply to the original post from Mike 74.

The diary has not been conclusively proven to be a fake. However, it’s personal opinion as to whether it’s real or not.

The most obvious discrepancy is that the handwriting doesn’t match any known examples of Maybrick’s. Most of the other things in there that point to it being written in 1889 can be discussed until your ears start bleeding & you still won’t know what’s true or not!

Mike Barratt claimed to have written it & that was enough proof for some people, even though he was under tremendous pressure at the time & anyone who’s been in a bad place will know how that feels. He admits creating the diary but he’s still not believed.

There are hundreds of books on this subject & every one you read makes you believe that the author has uncovered the truth but that’s how authors work – they manipulate the reader by convincing them they are telling the truth. However, you read the next book & they do exactly the same & its all done by omitting facts that they can’t quite fit into their version.

Personally, I don’t think we’ll ever know the truth of who JtR was or whether the diary is real because so much has been said & the actual truth is blurred.

Where does that leave us?

Going round in circles, reading the next ‘true story’ & getting our hopes up. Or maybe I’m just being pessimistic.

[caz]

Wait, Caz- i just thought of something!

Tempus omnia revelant... Time Reveals All...

and in Peter Pan the Crocodile swallowed the clock...

hmmm...

But it's after 2 AM now and my brain hurts, so I'll put the rest of the clues together in the morning.

Nightie-nite,
Archaic

No clock in this case, Archy, it's a watch case - with an initial here and an initial there.

Tick tock tick tock

Btw I think it's 'revelat'. Revelant sounds like the meat juice. Or was that Revalenta? Anyhow, it's not relevant - said the elephant in the room.

Or in this case the croc (which replaced the salmon when Joe Barnett realised it would be a dead giveaway).

Sleep tight.

Love,

Caz
X

[Archaic]

Wait, Caz- i just thought of something!

Tempus omnia revelant... Time Reveals All...

and in Peter Pan the Crocodile swallowed the clock...

hmmm...

But it's after 2 AM now and my brain hurts, so I'll put the rest of the clues together in the morning.

Nightie-nite,
Archaic

[caz]

Hi Archy!

So one wonders what was going through our faker's mind when he/she had their "Sir Jim" leave "it" there, right in front, for all to see.

"Ah", said Dew. "The crocodile!!"

And he smiled - even though one should never smile at a crocodile.

Love,

Caz
X

[Archaic]

re: Deviousness & Egotism

In 1888, who walked into that room who had any sense whatsoever of the deviousness and egotism of the 'serial killer' (a term, of course, yet to be uttered at that time)?

Hi, Soothy old pal! Still keeping the sword bright?

Just wanted to say hello and also to say that I agree with your above quote. As you know I don't believe in the authenticity of the diary, but I do think you raise a very valid point here.

The warped egotism of serial killers never ceases to amaze me. In 1888 the police can't have known what they were up against, so who knows what potential clues might have been missed?

By the same token, serial killers have been known to plant ambiguous, perplexing and deliberately false clues just for their own entertainment.... Ridgway's "Last Supper" display springs to mind.

For those unfamiliar with the case, Gary Ridgway posed one of his victims with a salmon and all kinds of things just to mess with the heads of the police task force desperately seeking 'clues' and insights into the mind of the unknown killer....
Which goes to show that deviousness and egotism can cut both ways.

Best regards,
Archaic

PS: Hi, Caz!

[caz]

Er, chaps, there is nothing in the diary about anything on Kelly's wall.

It's a red herring that's been dredged up so many times I can almost smell it coming.

Love,

Caz
X

[Soothsayer]

In the Chapman case, Dr Phillips did survey the crime scene and had the insight to note that objects had been arranged near the body.
Shouldn`t we feel confident that what he described as a number of separate splashes on Kelly`s wall were exactly that?

No, if I'm being honest.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Soothsayer,

If anyone had had that insight, they may very well have made more of (indeed, something of) the blood on the walls which looks so much like letters, and the knife marks which do the same.

In the Chapman case, Dr Phillips did survey the crime scene and had the insight to note that objects had been arranged near the body.
Shouldn`t we feel confident that what he described as a number of separate splashes on Kelly`s wall were exactly that?

[Soothsayer]

If no one told me it was there, would I have seen it? Very doubtful.

Could the same question be applied to the investigators who went into that room?

It is a perfectly fair point, Steve, however long ago you made it ... as I have argued elsewhere, the rules of engagement for the police were very different in 1888. And that's NOT mere opinion. Expectations were driven by what was understood, as is so often the case, and expectations - like evolution - change in leaps and bounds not in small steps. Until something or someone comes along to radically challenge the accepted view, the accepted view tends to prevail.

In 1888, who walked into that room who had any sense whatsoever of the deviousness and egotism of the 'serial killer' (a term, of course, yet to be uttered at that time)? If anyone had had that insight, they may very well have made more of (indeed, something of) the blood on the walls which looks so much like letters, and the knife marks which do the same.

Our minds are so often closed to what is possible that only what we have previously believed can be possible - until time and circumstances give us a shake and show us how Lucifer also works in mysterious ways.

Is it 17 years and counting now, or 18? You lose count when something so doggedly refuses to give up its secrets.

Indeed, it goes on so long that you start to wonder if there are any secrets to be given up at all.

Keep the faith.

[jculligan]

The Diary

I know where you are coming from. It is possible the diary is a hoax, but perhaps you could say that most of the books about "Jack the Ripper" if not hoaxes, are for the most part supposition and theory - how much actual evidence is there.